Diana blitzes and takes his head statues dont fight back.
Funny how Lightspeed Miss America could not blitz or avoid Caps hits.
Miss America is confirm lightspeed fighting.
Cap acting like a pimp beating lightspeed Chavez who owes him money. Captain Marvel had to save her ass.
Well to be fair Captain America is a significantly better H2H Fighter and This wasn’t a Serious fight. Overall it’s just Shitty Comic writing and I would still say DCEU Wonder woman’s faster. But I also don’t care.
Diana blitzes and takes his head statues dont fight back.
Funny how Lightspeed Miss America could not blitz or avoid Caps hits.
Miss America is confirm lightspeed fighting.
Cap acting like a pimp beating lightspeed Chavez who owes him money. Captain Marvel had to save her ass.
Well to be fair Captain America is a significantly better H2H Fighter and This wasn’t a Serious fight. Overall it’s just Shitty Comic writing and I would still say DCEU Wonder woman’s faster. But I also don’t care.
"Meeeehhh, caps not fast, because I dont like the idea he is fast enough to deal with Wonder Woman"
Casault bullet time even with Iron Man tech made weapons or Hawkeye physics breaking accuracy shots.
Diana blitzes and takes his head statues dont fight back.
Funny how Lightspeed Miss America could not blitz or avoid Caps hits.
Miss America is confirm lightspeed fighting.
Cap acting like a pimp beating lightspeed Chavez who owes him money. Captain Marvel had to save her ass.
Well to be fair Captain America is a significantly better H2H Fighter and This wasn’t a Serious fight. Overall it’s just Shitty Comic writing and I would still say DCEU Wonder woman’s faster. But I also don’t care.
"Meeeehhh, caps not fast, because I dont like the idea he is fast enough to deal with Wonder Woman"
Casault bullet time even with Iron Man tech made weapons or Hawkeye physics breaking accuracy shots.
@sirfizzwhizz: Yet he can’t dodge sub light speed Warmachine tackle?
Why would he? He was distracted by a dying Spider Man in his arms, and he knew he could tank it easy. Which he did.
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Also Wonder Woman cant dodge the slow ass attacks that nailed her in her three films either.
For what it's worth, I'm an Ultimate Cap fan and I usually argue in favor of his ability to give mid-tiers a run for their money.
But I also think Wonder Woman should logically and consistently outspeed him.
She is consistently portrayed perceiving bullets in slow-motion and moving like a speedster in pretty much all of her major appearances.
Cap seems to react to bullets and other high-speed stuff through skill, reflexes and/or short movement bursts. I don't think it's ever been shown that Cap actually perceives stuff slower, just that his reflexes are so good and his movement bursts so fast that he can do things like avoid gunfire.
Ultimate Cap being a straight-up speedster moving around at supersonic speeds would completely contradict the intent of the majority of his comics.
Cap seems to react to bullets and other high-speed stuff through skill, reflexes and/or short movement bursts. I don't think it's ever been shown that Cap actually perceives stuff slower, just that his reflexes are so good and his movement bursts so fast that he can do things like avoid gunfire.
Ultimate Cap being a straight-up speedster moving around at supersonic speeds would completely contradict the intent of the majority of his comics.
Never once I argue him being a speedster running around like Flash. However saying he is slower than Spider Man per say is bullshit too.
He blitzes super human marksmen and soldiers all the time with bullets all around consistently.
He stated to learn and think faster than SHIELD grade computers brain activity wise.
He is no slow. Wonder Woman in DCEU is bullet speed tops and does not even fight at super speed, just reacts to shit too. So in no way she is blitzing Cap.
Hit after running head first into Iron Man accurate tech machine gun fire? No that would make him a bullet timer. I mean...
Guess Spider Man is not a bullet timer. Even if the bullets are using super tech to aim accuratly, no excuse for Bullseye to hand throw blades that tagged after. Same for Punisher who shot out Spiderman Web Shooters.
What a ignorant as shit comment from ya to down play lol. Cap ran head first through automatic gun fire from Iron Man tech targeting weapon made for training Cap reflexes. Getting nick by a passing bullet proves he is not a bullet timer? The fatc he dodge all those shots and all other times fired at by proven marksmen without getting hit is the proof needed combine with statements how fast his brain works, and lightning/electricity reactions. As well fighting with speedsters like Chavez fine.
Wonder Woman most likely, the strength advantage and speed advantage isn't too much higher but is high enough to put her on top.
How is Wonder Woman stronger or more durable?
Strength
Cap and Moondragon clash blows with such force a massive shockwave explodes around them, blasting the other Moondragon clones away.
Stalemates Peter Parker who is a casual 6-10 toner by bios. Both are visibly shaking with effort of trying to overpower the other. Peter has feats like flinging a water flooded car one hand thousands of feats. Feats like lifting and slamming a ton moving truck like a baseball bat.
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Catches Valkyries fist, even though she is Asgardian in strength, and she has block blows from a blood lusted Thor with no problem with great effort.
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Cap overpowers out of the hold of these super suit soldiers. These soldiers are shown on panel that it only takes dozen or so of them to tip over the Statue of Liberty with their strength in a small time frame.
Ultimate Cap KOed at the time the by bio 80 toner Ultimate Juggs with a single kick to the face first time they met.
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Cap here takes a savage beating from post Cytorakk Juggernaut, stated 100+ toner by bio, with no ill effects or injury. After all this, and Juggs is knock down by a 30 ton dinosaur, Cap with a single attack KOes Juggernaut.
Cap physically stun Ultimate Hulk. That happen. It was a combination of skill and strength. While Hulk was only stun for a easy 10 count, this feat still happen.
Cap did this with ease again on the clone Nerd Hulk with a single kick to the balls.
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Cap embarrassed 60+ Giant Man in a straight up fight. Busting his face up with a kick. Dragging Pym down into slams.
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Cap with just his shield decimated Ultimate Warmachine and took his arm cannon as payment. All under 10 seconds. Same Warmachine whose armor takes earthquake causing blows from Tyron Cash.
He also matched Heir Kleiser well. A massively super strong and durable being who knew Caps moves inside and out. Kleiser is able to smash in reinforce, and super think bunker doors like a joke.
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Here Kleiser tanks a full on fighter jet hitting him, and smashing him in Jet Fuel for a major blast of super heated flames. He is merely upset.
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Kleiser here tanks many blows from murderous Hulk, and smashes Hulk with a easy 10+ ton military cargo truck.
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In this whole battle we see the skill level, and crazy regen of Kleiser, even having his head nearly blown off, or cut in half.
Durability
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Cap in the Ultimates fight is shown to take a Carrol Danvers blast to the back, then followed up by a enraged Miss America blow to the face with no damage. Miss America is a casual 50 toner, Carrol Danvers is a high tier energy blaster, and both thought this Cap was evil working with Ultimate Reed Richards. No reason they held back.
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Ultimate Abomination was stated stronger than Ultimate Hulk was per the first Ultimates run. Slamming Cap with a haymaker, and throwing him through a wall, but Cap is still fight worthy shape.
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Cap is caught in a brutal beating by the 100+ ton, murdering cannibal that is Hulk. Not only is Cap never KOed after the beating, but he stays on scene to taunt Hulk and goad Hulk. All the while directing the fight.
Blocks a fatal attack by Zarda , who is Hyperion's equal in the Supreme verse. Unlike 616 Steve's shield, 1610 Steve's shield does not disperse kinetic force, its all Caps muscles and strength hold against that blow.
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Cap locked blows with God Thor's attack. A attack that was strong enough to send Steve flying across the city and through a building. No harm done to Steve.
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Captain America manages to block super suit using Thor's best strike meant to kill Cap. Cap was KOed after this for a short time though.
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As seen super suit Thor's best blows will physically rupture and break bones of Hulk. As well wipe out multiple city blocks in a single attack.
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Post Cyttorak upgraded Juggernaut beats on Cap for several panels straight. This version of Juggernaut is confirm 100+ tons in bio. Cap not only takes the hits, but is fine afterward.
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Captain America suffered no physical damage from this Iron Man suit bull rush of a slam. He was KOed, but it should be noted at the time Cap had tons of tranqs pumped in him, as well took multiple blows from super suit wearing SHIELD agents, all which likely played a role for sure.
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Ultimate Cap slammed by a charging Warmachine through a city bridge, and is not KO at all. He was still fighting, and had no damage to him.
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One of Caps better feats has him tank multiple grenades exploding in his face, followed by being shown caught in the atomic bombs blast wave, and finishes off a super speedy fall of 1000s of feet into what would be concrete hard surface of the ocean. Cap still survives all this plus being frozen for 50+ years after all this.
PLEASE show me Wonder Woman DCEU doing or fighting on par with above feats. PLEASE try.
@xd_ist: Heres a pretty good respect thread for her you can go through it yourself if you want, this isn't close at all Cap gets blitzed and beheaded hes out stated in every category he doesnt hold a single advantage in this fight.
@xd_ist: no one is going to argue lightspeed Ultimate Captain America... That's like saying Deathstroke is lightspeed because he tagged Flash. That's like saying Batman is a hypersonic+ 100 tonner because he tagged Wonder Woman. We know you and fiz are practically joking... Its getting old.
@xd_ist: no one is going to argue lightspeed Ultimate Captain America... That's like saying Deathstroke is lightspeed because he tagged Flash. That's like saying Batman is a hypersonic+ 100 tonner because he tagged Wonder Woman. We know you and fiz are practically joking... Its getting old.
If we don’t go by feats.. then what metric should we go by?
If we don’t go by feats.. then what metric should we go by?
I'm not about to play games with you either, you can go by busted logic that puts Ultimate Captain America at lightspeed combat if you want to. I'll call it an outlier and move tf on.
If we don’t go by feats.. then what metric should we go by?
I'm not about to play games with you either, you can go by busted logic that puts Ultimate Captain America at lightspeed combat if you want to. I'll call it an outlier and move tf on.
Lol no games I was just curious.. if we ignore feats then what’s the point?
Outlier would be a consistency arg, which I’d fair I guess; but DCEU Diana has some consistently issues too… plus you didn’t really make any kinda consistency argument you just sorta dismissed the feats outta hand.
It just sometimes feels like people just say who they’d think wins based off their name.
Lol no games I was just curious.. if we ignore feats then what’s the point?
Outlier would be a consistency arg, which I’d fair I guess; but DCEU Diana has some consistently issues too… plus you didn’t really make any kinda consistency argument you just sorta dismissed the feats outta hand.
It just sometimes feels like people just say who they’d think wins based off their name.
Nah, no need to play it off. You definitely would ignore some feats if they were actually PIS. Outlier would definitely be a consistency arg since we have no actual evidence that anyone was moving at lightspeed during that specific instance in the first place, let alone doing so more than literally once with nothing to suggest its something he has ever been able to do again.
Does Batman kicking Spectre make him a cosmic threat? No. Does Black Panther putting Silver Surfer in an arm-bar make him a cosmic threat? No. Does Spider-Man beating Fire Lord make him a cosmic threat? No. Do we acknowledge those feats? No. So how does Ultimate Steve fighting a jobbing or holding back Miss America translate to him being light speed and getting fully acknowledged as such??? Bullsh*t... I'm not playing with y'all
Lol no games I was just curious.. if we ignore feats then what’s the point?
Outlier would be a consistency arg, which I’d fair I guess; but DCEU Diana has some consistently issues too… plus you didn’t really make any kinda consistency argument you just sorta dismissed the feats outta hand.
It just sometimes feels like people just say who they’d think wins based off their name.
Nah, no need to play it off. You definitely would ignore some feats if they were actually PIS. Outlier would definitely be a consistency arg since we have no actual evidence that anyone was moving at lightspeed during that specific instance in the first place, let alone doing so more than literally once with nothing to suggest its something he has ever been able to do again.
Does Batman kicking Spectre make him a cosmic threat? No. Does Black Panther putting Silver Surfer in an arm-bar make him a cosmic threat? No. Does Spider-Man beating Fire Lord make him a cosmic threat? No. Do we acknowledge those feats? No. So how does Ultimate Steve fighting a jobbing or holding back Miss America translate to him being light speed and getting fully acknowledged as such??? Bullsh*t... I'm not playing with y'all
Sure.. if a good consistency arg was made id generally go with the more consistent level… like if you showed Cap consistently hit by bullets, him blocking a few would be less consistent.
I acknowledge the feats you listed, they happened so it would be odd if o didn’t acknowledge them... I’m pretty sure I could put together a arg against them consistency wise… but they did happen.
And like I mentioned earlier, DCEU Diana has sone consistency issues also.. she sometimes gets rated as a lightning timer with 2 feats like that, against a bunch of other feats… I think bullet timer might be more consistent for her, and I’m not sure that’s enough to blitz this Steve.
I ofc didnt mean to upset or seem like I was playing games, I just find it interesting is all.
@ancient_0f_days: @death4bunnies: lightspeed argument for Cap is only for people who d9nt have common sense, and there is a lot of those on the vine.
However Cap is stated Super human. Not peak human. Super human. He never gets tagged by bullets unless it's the Iron Man tech made AK seen in my one scan and that only graze Cap arm. We never see bullets tag him and twice electric attacks reacted to after fired at Cap. As well statement how fast he process info and thinks which would be above bullet time speeds.
In short Cap is consistent bullet timer easy as Diana in DCEU. She in no way can blitz. Cap is also a better fighter, stronger in striking attacks by alot, and arguably more durable than Diana as well by all metric of feats.
I acknowledge the feats you listed, they happened so it would be odd if o didn’t acknowledge them... I’m pretty sure I could put together a arg against them consistency wise… but they did happen.
Yeah, we're done here...you're definitely playing games by using "acknowledge" so loosely. Its one thing to acknowledge that a feat exists, its another to consider it as valid for use in a battle thread. That is the context I'm using when I say "acknowledge", to recognize as a valid, consistent or otherwise relevant representation of a characters abilities. Anyone who considers Batman kicking Spectre, Black Panther holding Norrin, Spider-Man beating Fire Lord, or Ultimate Cap fighting at light-speed as valid and worthy of acknowledgement in a battle thread is chock full o' Bull.
I feel like you didn’t really respond to the meat of my comment where I explained I don’t think Diana is consistently much above bullets speed any more than Cap is much above bullet speed… in fact you cut that out of my argument when you responded.
What I was getting at is if we are gonna use highend showing or consistent showings.. we should probably do for both.
Steve mid-diff. The only way I think Diana could win is by spamming her bracelet clash, but I’m pretty sure she doesn’t fight like that in-character and Cap can block the impact with his shield.
However Cap is stated Super human. Not peak human. Super human. He never gets tagged by bullets unless it's the Iron Man tech made AK seen in my one scan and that only graze Cap arm. We never see bullets tag him and twice electric attacks reacted to after fired at Cap. As well statement how fast he process info and thinks which would be above bullet time speeds.
In short Cap is consistent bullet timer easy as Diana in DCEU. She in no way can blitz. Cap is also a better fighter, stronger in striking attacks by alot, and arguably more durable than Diana as well by all metric of feats.
Diana loses solidly.
Even if we consider their combat speed comparable with Cap being a better fighter overall, her fights with Ares, Doomsday and Steppenwolf are an indicator of the level combat she's able to deal with. I'm not sure if you're willing to argue Cap can scale higher than Ares, Doomsday or Steppenwolf physically as well, but you're welcome to... I have no problem with Cap winning, but when you open with this...
Guess Spider Man is not a bullet timer. Even if the bullets are using super tech to aim accuratly, no excuse for Bullseye to hand throw blades that tagged after. Same for Punisher who shot out Spiderman Web Shooters.
I mean, in both those instance he was mid air, but regardless he has plenty of feats proving otherwise, that is just the inconsistency of writing. In one comic superman is MFTL and in another he can barely break the sound barrier.
What a ignorant as shit comment from ya to down play lol. Cap ran head first through automatic gun fire from Iron Man tech targeting weapon made for training Cap reflexes. Getting nick by a passing bullet proves he is not a bullet timer? The fatc he dodge all those shots and all other times fired at by proven marksmen without getting hit is the proof needed combine with statements how fast his brain works, and lightning/electricity reactions. As well fighting with speedsters like Chavez fine.
Keep trying to lowball here.
Dude fucking relax, I just asked a question.
I still don't see a feat of his faster than WW, as she could straight up dodge Ares lightning and can swing on it as well.
How is Wonder Woman stronger or more durable?
Well she clearly can tank hits from the likes of DD as well as harm, she also has her bracelets and sword which gives her an advantage as well as the shock wave she can produce that can knock the likes of DD back and Superman. So yeah I would say she is more durable and stronger than Cap, faster too. But the Margin isn't huge either, I just think her powers give her an edge.
And like I mentioned earlier, DCEU Diana has sone consistency issues also.. she sometimes gets rated as a lightning timer with 2 feats like that, against a bunch of other feats… I think bullet timer might be more consistent for her, and I’m not sure that’s enough to blitz this Steve.
Wait, what consistency issues? Maybe I am misremembering the movies but I don't remember anything contradicting her being lightning speed at full power?
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