Archetype Earth vs Goetia

VS

Bloodlusted

Win by Death or KO

Goetia will probably win after an arduous battle.

Goetia cannot kill Archetype: Earth and if the battle doesn't take place in the Time Temple then Arc cannot kill Goetia either.

Eternal stalemate.

If the battle takes place in the Time Temple then:

1-Either Arc's backup makes her exceed the power of Ars Almadel Salomonis (assuming it even works there or that it can exceed that amount of energy) and she destroys the throne of the Time Temple, making it so that Goetia can die

2-Or it doesn't and then she gets vaporized by AAS.

If the second happens then either:

1B-Arc reforms on Earth and either reenters the Time Temple if she can or gets stuck on Earth if she cannot.

2B-Arc reforms on the Time Temple and then it's just a matter of time until Goetia runs of the energy of AAS destroying her body, at which point then she's free to just destroy the throne of the Time Temple and kill him.

Me and crimson talked about this, and we came to the conclusion arc CANT do anything to goetia.

If there in the time temple I doubt she would get any back up, if it all. (Bonus if goetia does what he did in GO)

And the energy goetia has is at least comparable to that of galaxies, and his mana core generates some insane fucking mana.

And there’s always the option of completing the “plan” and just becoming the new type for earth with better abilities.

(Forgot to mention, she probably can’t do anything if goetia makes direct eye contact and sends her to purgatory. That or shes just reliving her life while goetia can do whatever the fuck he wants).

There’s no way to permanently put goetia down (as he still is alive even in the lostbelts it seems, and his demon pillars can just revive everyone else or proc the RM).

There’s like no possible win scenario for Arc when fighting a dude who already knows the outcome (but sadly not the ultimate path to victory without solomons other skill which he did not inherit).

Archetype one shots.

@crimsonslayer85: dont say she wins because of the root scaling u have.

@the_metabee: She is stated to be above Void and was confident in killing her in MB. Blinking Goetia is the least of her concerns.

@crimsonslayer85: now tell me how she wins without assuming she has the connection to the root or is above void who has too many anti feats than feats and only statements

@the_metabee: Archetype is above Void. The only logical way for that to happen is her having more access to Akasha. Ryougi even said in MB that she was sent to kill someone of her same kind, implying that she does indeed have a connection to Akasha.

Void has 0 anti feats. And statements are valid unless contradicted or comes from an unreliable source.

literally can't beat Fou isnt an anti feat? i dont blame her for losing if Merlin and ishtar were scared of the beast.

Now i need some actual feats for Arc

@the_metabee:

Void was stated to be the second strongest on a list that included Primate Murder. Void in GO only fights with her katana and Mystic Eyes, hence why she cannot beat Beasts in those conditions. The game itself says that if she bothered to use her connection to the Root, she would be all powerful and all parameters will be meaningless to her, which is perfectly consistent with her statements in the epilogue. She never uses her real powers in GO because she doesn't care. Void messing around as a Servant for fun has no bearing on her actual level of power. Do you really think that Fou would last a second against someone with a vast connection to Akasha?

Archetype Earth was directly stated to be above Void Shiki and she talked to her through Ryougi in MB, being fully confident in defeating her despite knowing what she was. Therefore she scales above her, and that's all you need to blink Goetia.

Goetia stated that Solomon when alive could have stopped him.

He says this when confronting Roman/Servant Solomon without knowing about Ars Nova and how the rings can be used to weaken Goetia. Therefore the statement is about power, not hax.

Arcueid is the strongest of the True Ancestors who are superior to Divine Spirits such as the god who gave Solomon his powers.

Fate/complete material IV: Extra Material -Fate/EXTRA- Characters - Gatou Monji & Berserker, p.254

Gatou Monji is an strange Master that worships Berserker as a God. He is a man that carries various religions so his speech can't be understood. Berserker was originally an spirit from the Earth called "True Ancestor" but, due to Gatou's misconceptions that say "she = God" her status downgraded from Planet to God, making her unable to properly display her abilities. During battle her Noble Phantasm uses gravity as means of attack, causing great damage.

So Arcueid > Other True Ancestors > God > Solomon (Living) > Goetia

Unless Goetia has some ability I'm forgetting about that lets him survive indefinitely against someone more powerful than him, Arcueid wins.

Comicvine really shouldn't be allowed to debate type moon at this point.

OT: Goetia obviously stomps.

Archetype Earth also has no concept of death. So Goetia can't do anything to her in the first place.

even though goetia scales above the likes of PM in GO whos actually stronger than the one in the interview? let alone the list never had servants, so how do you expect it to scale to Fate and not just tsuki and KNK?

Yeah cause the earth never gave it to her. imagine her shock when someone incernates the timeline and suddenly becomes a real ass TYPE that can do anything she can do? you get Type-Moon being irrelevant (meaning no DAA which then leads to no arc), and you have humans with no concept of death. and Goetia chilling with his other demon god pillars.

@tsotso said:

Goetia stated that Solomon when alive could have stopped him.

He says this when confronting Roman/Servant Solomon without knowing about Ars Nova and how the rings can be used to weaken Goetia. Therefore the statement is about power, not hax.

Arcueid is the strongest of the True Ancestors who are superior to Divine Spirits such as the god who gave Solomon his powers.
Divine Spirits are downgraded version of these Gods in a servant container. Not there actual true forms. such as tiamat actually being a full blown god, when she was a beast.

Fate/complete material IV: Extra Material -Fate/EXTRA- Characters - Gatou Monji & Berserker, p.254

Gatou Monji is an strange Master that worships Berserker as a God. He is a man that carries various religions so his speech can't be understood. Berserker was originally an spirit from the Earth called "True Ancestor" but, due to Gatou's misconceptions that say "she = God" her status downgraded from Planet to God, making her unable to properly display her abilities. During battle her Noble Phantasm uses gravity as means of attack, causing great damage.

So Arcueid > Other True Ancestors > God > Solomon (Living) > Goetia

Unless Goetia has some ability I'm forgetting about that lets him survive indefinitely against someone more powerful than him, Arcueid wins.

Yes, because Arc can barely beat Amatersu whilst goetias plan is said by Tanamoa to be as big as a threat as 3 Yokai. not only does Goetia beat Wodmine who beat (nerfed) Zeus who is easily stronger than the likes Of amatersu and the white titan.

So instead you have God/Allah (abrahmic) (who may or not be Akasha itself or be sitting on it) >>> Types >>>> Solomon (As A grand with ALL the Magecraft humanity has)> = Goetia >> Alien God >>> Wodmine =/= Zeus > Earths Counterforce (Stronger than the one is tsuki because it has a throne and pruning) > 7th Form White Titan > Amaterasu and the other yokai > Beast Cath Culag (Fou) > Pseudo Type Arc = Void Shiki (As a servant who wants to protect ritsuka) >>>> Grand Servants >>> Mooncell >> BB = Extra Arc (Who BARELY has a chance in beating Amatersu) >>> Divine Spirits >>> Regular Ass DAA (TA's) Members (Excluding Zeltretch who actually got weaker. And type mercury who fodderizes any of the regular born ones)

@the_metabee:

Yes, because Nasu likes jokes. an April fools Fate Go characters literally see the nasuverse and the root as fiction.

This isn't even an argument.

And you keep on saying this when you dont play go, actually post a scan of them ever implying that.

A scan of what? Void using her connection to the Root? That's up to you. We never see her doing anything beside swinging a fucking katana. Show a scan of her using her connection to Akasha or just concede that Beasts are fodder. Stats are explicitly said to be meaningless to Void actually using her powers, while they aren't for Beasts.

even though goetia scales above the likes of PM in GO whos actually stronger than the one in the interview?

Irrelevant, and PM is not stronger than the one in the list lol.

let alone the list never had servants,

Yet it had every single Type, every single DAA, Roa (who killed all True Ancestors), Sion, Akiha, Aoko, Kishima, Ado Edem. All of this characters STOMPS Servants, yet they couldn't even get in the third place.

Void blink Goetia out of existence. She has a vast connection to the boundless source of all creation and stated she can do just about anything with it. There is literally no room for debate.

@the_metabee: Eh? Archetype waves her hand and Goetia gets fodderized.

@the_metabee: How in the world is BB below fodder Grand Servants? BB is literally a beyond multiversal and higher dimensional entity. Even her weaker base form was an infinite concept. And LOL at Arc being below Types when Red Arcueid alone was stated to be equal to Type Moon.

Void Dies To PM stated by herself. Goetia either looks at her and sends her soul back to the root. or turn her into one of his demon god pillars for EVEN thinking about him, and you also realize everything has a connection? so omnipotent verse? Vast connection? Magicians and Manaka have a vast connection. its just the usage of the connection.

Can she beat Zeus? who can just delete her concept, dimension standing and ignore ten crowns if not just vaporize it passivley from the lighting bolt and sheer amount of authorities (Let Alone Beat the white titan who with screams can destroy her entire digtial reality and its source the mooncell which also took hold of her at one point and can make her a fodder npc?), if not then shes below. and yes Type Moon himself was literally the first to die. and himself barely having anything impressive (hes just arcuied).

Edit: lol how can bb be 8d when the mooncell itself is barely 4d? its multi dimensional defenses might as well be the same as a bounded feild on the border in FGO which almost died from a planet busting beam from aretmis. (Also black barrel from mashu literally might one shot arc)

@the_metabee:

No one has a connection to Akasha like Void does. Magician use a singular power that comes from the Root and Manaka is limited by her magic circuits.

Again, she stated that she can do just about anything and that she is all powerful. Void stated she can't beat PM, but you fail to realise she is just acting as a Servant and not using her connection to the Root in GO.

"Ado edem? no, the list had 5 fucking characters. do you think Nasu had the time to actually mention all of them? let alone not bothering to even talk about servants?"

What are you even talking about? Only Servants were excluded, meaning that those 3 characters mentioned are above the rest of the Nasuverse that BLINKS Servants.

BB sees the space-time Zeus resides in as a flat scroll and rip it to pieces.

Zeus cannot ignore Ten Crowns and i don't think you realise that you are putting him against a multiversal entity with infinite speed. BB solos all of GO.

(Maximum: CCC WANK)

ill break down the scaling for you crimson. Amatersu by WOG is the strongest in Extra, her weaker avatar is already destroying the moon cell and can only-maybe be defeated by Extra arc after a shit ton of debuffs.

White Titan scales above this, in panhuman history Amaterasu survives the attack, in the greek lost belt she dies horribly. now what does the greek lost belt have to do with this? well it has Zeus, the same Zeus who beats the white titan.

This Same white titan threatens to destroy the moon cell with a scream and cant be fully manifested there or else the mooncell dies.

So called mooncell is now 8d dimensional. now using your logic (not tryna be disrespectful) Zeus is now 8d+ and Multiversal (Read Solar System level to the logical ones) from killing sefar.

This same Zeus presumabley gets killed by mashu with black barrel. so we have 8d Mashu, and 8d wodmine. now we can scale Mashu to BB, and likewise.

Now mashu dies to Goetia but ritsukua survives and also moves in a timeless void. now maximum rank we can say that this void was akasha as its the true void. and we can wank goetia and ritsuka to above the moon cell meaning goetia is 9d-boundless omnipotent. and wait? Gudako actually beat him?

BOUNDLESS TRUE OMNIPOTENT SEES FATE AS FICTION RITSUKA?!

well, this actually might be true from learning with manga ritsuka who was shown to be piloting goetia.

Now ignoring this shit scaling.

The god tiers are actually around solar system to galaxy level, and only some can actually be "4th dimensional" which would be Goetia, extra characters and extella characters.

Now zeus despite being "Lower dimensional" Can Beat Sefar, meaning theres no real dimensional hiegharchy/interaction stop. which then means Zeus dogs on BB with his superior NP, composite Authorities (Which you only need Earth mother godess + to bypass the event stopage, which wouldnt you know, Zeus, GO Gilgamesh, and Rom all have Nation-building or Chief God Status. which is already better than tiamat. which means they bypass ten crowns.)

(Back to CCC type WANK) And what do you know? Mother Godess has a vague connection to the root? slap that on those 3 silly boys. now for the people who scale above them (Goetia in specific who also created tiamats 3d Body Infinite Volume body), they would have connection to the root. now you have a moral dilemma, Goetia cant be Arc because Goetia and arc have the same connection. and the 15 year old statement gets thrown behind in the trash replaced with new statements, feats and more!

This why we need a filter and to stop using this dimension shit for the nasuverse when we dont even know how to use it correctly and the wonky af situtional fights.


dont use Akasha as a connection to justify the wank. actually use actual current statements feats and abilties, if you dont its not even logical to debate with you anymore.

@the_metabee:

The likes of every God tier also have that statement in someway shape or form. hell they all have "omnipotence" that doesnt get countered by anti feats like void.

Which God Tiers? Zeus? Goetia? The fact that they were defeated should be quite telling that they aren't omnipotent. And i love how you keep repeating that Void has anti feats when that's not the case at all. All you can do is endlessly repeat her statement of not being able to beat PM while she is messing around as a Servant. The game itself says that she is all powerful when she actually bother to use her powers. Get that through your thick skull.

manaka herself is better than Ryougi in using her powers. both are the same but the other is just limited on circuits (but as a beast would be elminated)

Baseless fanfiction. Manaka is limited by her magic circuits and will always be shit compared to Void.

The whole list you said never even mentioned the rest. the 3 people mentioned cant even hold a candle to servants or its undecive who would win between servants and them. which is further backed up by other shit nasu said back then

Cope harder. The question was literally who were the strongest in the WHOLE Nasuverse and Void was ranked as second. Servants being excluded doesn't mean absolute shit because there are so many characters that can obliterate them that it's not even funny. And what do you mean "the 3 people mentioned cant even hold a candle to servants or its undecive who would win between servants and them? Are you saying that fucking Arcueid can't handle a Servant? She dropped the Moon at 30% of her power and survived the attack unharmed, while Saber nearly died from a pathetic crash at 200 KM/H. Arcueid is much faster than Roa, who can turn himself into lightining, while Servants struggle with bullets and needs various buffs to reach supersonic speed. She will absolutely shred them.

The Same Zeus would survive and procced to eliminate the 8th Dimension where BB resides. she isnt grand level. keep the fodder npc out of Extra for her saftey

No, he won't survive it. If you truly think that a fodder like Zeus can affect the 8th dimension, then i have no words.

BB cant beat arc or amatersu who cant fight go god tiers. try again. multiversal bb = multiversal goetia who doesnt get controlled by a machine and multiversal boundless omnipotent earth. the likes of astolflo is phasing through all of her attacks

All trash talk without any substance. BB solos GO. We have explicit statements of the Moon Cell having infinite parallel universes and a detailed explanation as to how she is higher dimensional, and you are comparing her to fodder Goetia? And no, BB can't beat Extra Amaterasu, who is amped by conceptual space and is from another timeline with different rules. Main timeline Amaterasu doesn't scale to the Moon Cell at all. Extra Arcueid also doesn't scale since she is explicitly not the same Arc from Tsukihime with vastly different lore like her being the Queen of the vampires rather than the princess.

also zeus lighting bolts ignore the type of invicbility bb has. try harder to wank, a caveman solos extra with the promised sword of victory

BB rejects those weak lightning bolts with ten crowns, then she stomps Zeus with infinite speed and multiversal strikes. Or absorb him with Black Noise. Or rewrites him alongside the dimension with C.C.C. BB solos GO with her ruler.

ill break down the scaling for you crimson. Amatersu by WOG is the strongest in Extra, her weaker avatar is already destroying the moon cell and can only-maybe be defeated by Extra arc after a shit ton of debuffs.

No Arc was said to be ABOUT the only capable of beating Amaterasu. The truly unbeatable character from Extra is Kiara and it's stated that only Buddha could beat her. Shit ton of debuff? Arc is in a restricted Servant container and had her existence downgraded from True Ancestors to God, and despite that, merely regaining her sanity as a Berserker could allow her to stand up to Amaterasu, who is buffed by conceptual space. It's clear that Extra Arc at full power stomps her.

White Titan scales above this, in panhuman history Amaterasu survives the attack, in the greek lost belt she dies horribly. now what does the greek lost belt have to do with this? well it has Zeus, the same Zeus who beats the white titan.

This Same white titan threatens to destroy the moon cell with a scream and cant be fully manifested there or else the mooncell dies.

So called mooncell is now 8d dimensional. now using your logic (not tryna be disrespectful) Zeus is now 8d+ and Multiversal (Read Solar System level to the logical ones) from killing sefar.

This same Zeus presumabley gets killed by mashu with black barrel. so we have 8d Mashu, and 8d wodmine. now we can scale Mashu to BB, and likewise.

No, Extra and CCC happens in a completely different timeline with different rules and scales to none of the main timeline bs. That's Extella. And even GO scaling to Extella is questionable since Kiara is stated to be on a lower scale than her Moon Cell self and BB is just a Servant off shot who had Ten Crowns nerfed to shit because it was considered "cheating" sent by the Moon Cell, showing she isn't even connected with it.

Now mashu dies to Goetia but ritsukua survives and also moves in a timeless void. now maximum rank we can say that this void was akasha as its the true void. and we can wank goetia and ritsuka to above the moon cell meaning goetia is 9d-boundless omnipotent. and wait? Gudako actually beat him?

BOUNDLESS TRUE OMNIPOTENT SEES FATE AS FICTION RITSUKA?!

well, this actually might be true from learning with manga ritsuka who was shown to be piloting goetia.

Are you actually serious? It's not Akasha just because it's a void lmfao. By that logic every random person in CCC is higher dimensional simply because they reside in the higher dimensional far side which is stated to have a different concept of time, that's not how it works. Just because they can move in a void it doesn't mean shit.

The god tiers are actually around solar system to galaxy level, and only some can actually be "4th dimensional" which would be Goetia, extra characters and extella characters.

Now zeus despite being "Lower dimensional" Can Beat Sefar, meaning theres no real dimensional hiegharchy/interaction stop. which then means Zeus dogs on BB with his superior NP, composite Authorities (Which you only need Earth mother godess + to bypass the event stopage, which wouldnt you know, Zeus, GO Gilgamesh, and Rom all have Nation-building or Chief God Status. which is already better than tiamat. which means they bypass ten crowns.)

No, the Extra god tiers are on a unimaginable higher level than those of Extella and GO. They aren't the same damn timeline and they don't scale to each other. Even the lore is different. Nasu had to make a different version of Extra (Extella Zero) as to fit with the lore.

Nothing has shown to bypass Ten Crowns beside the other Servants mutually negating it with their own.

(Back to CCC type WANK) And what do you know? Mother Godess has a vague connection to the root? slap that on those 3 silly boys. now for the people who scale above them (Goetia in specific who also created tiamats 3d Body Infinite Volume body), they would have connection to the root. now you have a moral dilemma, Goetia cant be Arc because Goetia and arc have the same connection. and the 15 year old statement gets thrown behind in the trash replaced with new statements, feats and more

...... Their connection is not even remotely comparable to that of Void and Archetype Earth. The fact that you can't understand this is disturbing. Nothing replaces the "15 years old" (which wouldn't make it any less valid) statement about who are the strongest in the Nasuverse.

ont use Akasha as a connection to justify the wank. actually use actual current statements feats and abilties, if you dont its not even logical to debate with you anymore.

"Wank" when we have clear statements supporting it.

What do we have so far?

Lowballing Extra characters and Void Shiki: over 9000.

Compelling arguments for GO god tiers: error 404.

You already conceded on not knowing anything on the old Nasuverse series. So i don't why you even bother to debate against it. If you keep scaling Extra characters to Extella and GO, claiming that Void is weaker than Beasts or that Zeus and Goetia can beat a higher dimensional and beyond multiversal entity, i will take that as a concession that GO is fodder and you have no way to defend it.

@crimsonslayer85 said:

@the_metabee:

The likes of every God tier also have that statement in someway shape or form. hell they all have "omnipotence" that doesnt get countered by anti feats like void.

Which God Tiers? Zeus? Goetia? The fact that they were defeated should be quite telling that they aren't omnipotent. And i love how you keep repeating that Void has anti feats when that's not the case at all. All you can do is endlessly repeat her statement of not being able to beat PM while she is messing around as a Servant. The game itself says that she is all powerful when she actually bother to use her powers. Get that through your thick skull.
sure dude, ill take it from the person who doesnt play fgo.

manaka herself is better than Ryougi in using her powers. both are the same but the other is just limited on circuits (but as a beast would be elminated)

Baseless fanfiction. Manaka is limited by her magic circuits and will always be shit compared to Void.
Not until she pulls up as a beast with some cool akasha connection, which would serve to make GO as a series the best of nasus work.

The whole list you said never even mentioned the rest. the 3 people mentioned cant even hold a candle to servants or its undecive who would win between servants and them. which is further backed up by other shit nasu said back then

Cope harder. The question was literally who were the strongest in the WHOLE Nasuverse and Void was ranked as second. Servants being excluded doesn't mean absolute shit because there are so many characters that can obliterate them that it's not even funny. And what do you mean "the 3 people mentioned cant even hold a candle to servants or its undecive who would win between servants and them? Are you saying that fucking Arcueid can't handle a Servant? She dropped the Moon at 30% of her power and survived the attack unharmed, while Saber nearly died from a pathetic crash at 200 KM/H. Arcueid is much faster than Roa, who can turn himself into lightining, while Servants struggle with bullets and needs various buffs to reach supersonic speed. She will absolutely shred them.
"THE WHOLE NASUVERSE" were street pole level. No fate Extra, No Extella. and no GO. this statement doesnt hold up to current nasuverse. yes im saying arc cant handle a servant. the likes of maxwells demon and astoflo would be invincble (even to shit that ignores invinciblity other than okitas np i belive). and from what your saying. youve proved you havent played CCC, GO, or extella.

The Same Zeus would survive and procced to eliminate the 8th Dimension where BB resides. she isnt grand level. keep the fodder npc out of Extra for her saftey

No, he won't survive it. If you truly think that a fodder like Zeus can affect the 8th dimension, then i have no words.
To your logic? hes 9d+ cope harder. Sefar in her 3rd form threatend the "8d mooncell" your favorite verse is getting passivley stoke down by lighting.

BB cant beat arc or amatersu who cant fight go god tiers. try again. multiversal bb = multiversal goetia who doesnt get controlled by a machine and multiversal boundless omnipotent earth. the likes of astolflo is phasing through all of her attacks

All trash talk without any substance. BB solos GO. We have explicit statements of the Moon Cell having infinite parallel universes and a detailed explanation as to how she is higher dimensional, and you are comparing her to fodder Goetia? And no, BB can't beat Extra Amaterasu, who is amped by conceptual space and is from another timeline with different rules. Main timeline Amaterasu doesn't scale to the Moon Cell at all. Extra Arcueid also doesn't scale since she is explicitly not the same Arc from Tsukihime with vastly different lore like her being the Queen of the vampires rather than the princess.
Expect main timeline Amatersu does scale, because shes the only mf who survived sefars attack. its not even diffrent comsology, its just that nasu was trying to figure out what killed the gods.
So from that alone we get Multiversal Goetia, and multiversal Earth from effecting infinite timelines and getting energy from them. (to the point there now finite).

also zeus lighting bolts ignore the type of invicbility bb has. try harder to wank, a caveman solos extra with the promised sword of victory

BB rejects those weak lightning bolts with ten crowns, then she stomps Zeus with infinite speed and multiversal strikes. Or absorb him with Black Noise. Or rewrites him alongside the dimension with C.C.C. BB solos GO with her ruler.
so-called BB after trying to reject the lighting bolt that deleted her authority.

ill break down the scaling for you crimson. Amatersu by WOG is the strongest in Extra, her weaker avatar is already destroying the moon cell and can only-maybe be defeated by Extra arc after a shit ton of debuffs.

No Arc was said to be ABOUT the only capable of beating Amaterasu. The truly unbeatable character from Extra is Kiara and it's stated that only Buddha could beat her. Shit ton of debuff? Arc is in a restricted Servant container and had her existence downgraded from True Ancestors to God, and despite that, merely regaining her sanity as a Berserker could allow her to stand up to Amaterasu, who is buffed by conceptual space. It's clear that Extra Arc at full power stomps her.
yeah, a debuffed Amatersu, who would be debuffed by the sane full power extra arc.

White Titan scales above this, in panhuman history Amaterasu survives the attack, in the greek lost belt she dies horribly. now what does the greek lost belt have to do with this? well it has Zeus, the same Zeus who beats the white titan.

This Same white titan threatens to destroy the moon cell with a scream and cant be fully manifested there or else the mooncell dies.

So called mooncell is now 8d dimensional. now using your logic (not tryna be disrespectful) Zeus is now 8d+ and Multiversal (Read Solar System level to the logical ones) from killing sefar.

This same Zeus presumabley gets killed by mashu with black barrel. so we have 8d Mashu, and 8d wodmine. now we can scale Mashu to BB, and likewise.

No, Extra and CCC happens in a completely different timeline with different rules and scales to none of the main timeline bs. That's Extella. And even GO scaling to Extella is questionable since Kiara is stated to be on a lower scale than her Moon Cell self and BB is just a Servant off shot who had Ten Crowns nerfed to shit because it was considered "cheating" sent by the Moon Cell, showing she isn't even connected with it.
Its funny because nasu made GO the comp main force of his works. this already invalidates your fan fiction. they scale unless you want to belive the earth randomly died so the mooncell could do whatever the fuck it wanted, Go scaling to extella isnt just from kiara. its from the white titan and Yokai who are primarily in CCC

Now mashu dies to Goetia but ritsukua survives and also moves in a timeless void. now maximum rank we can say that this void was akasha as its the true void. and we can wank goetia and ritsuka to above the moon cell meaning goetia is 9d-boundless omnipotent. and wait? Gudako actually beat him?

BOUNDLESS TRUE OMNIPOTENT SEES FATE AS FICTION RITSUKA?!

well, this actually might be true from learning with manga ritsuka who was shown to be piloting goetia.

Are you actually serious? It's not Akasha just because it's a void lmfao. By that logic every random person in CCC is higher dimensional simply because they reside in the higher dimensional far side which is stated to have a different concept of time, that's not how it works. Just because they can move in a void it doesn't mean shit.
You know the far side and Goetias temple arent actually too diffrent. so goetias rm is already better? but as you can tell im joking.

The god tiers are actually around solar system to galaxy level, and only some can actually be "4th dimensional" which would be Goetia, extra characters and extella characters.

Now zeus despite being "Lower dimensional" Can Beat Sefar, meaning theres no real dimensional hiegharchy/interaction stop. which then means Zeus dogs on BB with his superior NP, composite Authorities (Which you only need Earth mother godess + to bypass the event stopage, which wouldnt you know, Zeus, GO Gilgamesh, and Rom all have Nation-building or Chief God Status. which is already better than tiamat. which means they bypass ten crowns.)

No, the Extra god tiers are on a unimaginable higher level than those of Extella and GO. They aren't the same damn timeline and they don't scale to each other. Even the lore is different. Nasu had to make a different version of Extra (Extella Zero) as to fit with the lore.
Goes to say how unfished CCC was huh, anyways the mooncell didnt change. and would still get destroyed by tanamo or Amatersu. they didnt change, so sefar scales to the old CCC. stop trying to dodge this shit with that when weve already seen people like goetia view into CCC.

Nothing has shown to bypass Ten Crowns beside the other Servants mutually negating it with their own.
bro your godgate or lordballer. none of the servants had ten crowns. they either had a more ancient authority to cancel it out (Which in GO would just be EX rank).

(Back to CCC type WANK) And what do you know? Mother Godess has a vague connection to the root? slap that on those 3 silly boys. now for the people who scale above them (Goetia in specific who also created tiamats 3d Body Infinite Volume body), they would have connection to the root. now you have a moral dilemma, Goetia cant be Arc because Goetia and arc have the same connection. and the 15 year old statement gets thrown behind in the trash replaced with new statements, feats and more

...... Their connection is not even remotely comparable to that of Void and Archetype Earth. The fact that you can't understand this is disturbing. Nothing replaces the "15 years old" (which wouldn't make it any less valid) statement about who are the strongest in the Nasuverse.
A new list would. new info would. now your just sounding clingly to the old info. learning with manga solos

ont use Akasha as a connection to justify the wank. actually use actual current statements feats and abilties, if you dont its not even logical to debate with you anymore.

"Wank" when we have clear statements supporting it.

What do we have so far?

Lowballing Extra characters and Void Shiki: over 9000.

Compelling arguments for GO god tiers: error 404.

You already conceded on not knowing anything on the old Nasuverse series. So i don't why you even bother to debate against it. If you keep scaling Extra characters to Extella and GO, claiming that Void is weaker than Beasts or that Zeus and Goetia can beat a higher dimensional and beyond multiversal entity, i will take that as a concession that GO is fodder and you have no way to defend it.
Never did, infact the old thread i specifically told you i was joking. and i dont know why you bother to debate GO when you have the same knowledge on GO as someone like Zgtfreak, who didnt even want to read that shit because it ruined his fantasy.

and if you keep arguing for multiversal mooncell, ill leave you with this. the actual universe there talking about is solar system in size. so there not multiversal. there multisystem, get it cause like multi solar system? anyways you have no ways of disproving my claims so you try to gaslight me with this concede bullshit.

This whole time your only argument for CCC and extra was. "TheRe NoT in the same timeline" your not disproving anything crimson. accept it or move on. i dont want to debate someone who doesnt know what change is and thinks the begining of the series statements works with current statements when there new info.

Edit: you can still kill a brick who just has infinite speed with inascble speed. it would be even easier for the likes of zeus to oneshot like zeno to infinite zamasu. since shes so called omnipresent.

fun fact: Goetia might have been mentioned all the way back in the tsukihime games aswell (probably as a concept idea)

i also wanna @sainguinexshadow here, because he actually knows about Go more than me (My Dumbass is barely on LB 5)

@the_metabee said:

@tsotso said:

Goetia stated that Solomon when alive could have stopped him.

He says this when confronting Roman/Servant Solomon without knowing about Ars Nova and how the rings can be used to weaken Goetia. Therefore the statement is about power, not hax.

Arcueid is the strongest of the True Ancestors who are superior to Divine Spirits such as the god who gave Solomon his powers.
Divine Spirits are downgraded version of these Gods in a servant container. Not there actual true forms. such as tiamat actually being a full blown god, when she was a beast.

Fate/complete material IV: Extra Material -Fate/EXTRA- Characters - Gatou Monji & Berserker, p.254

Gatou Monji is an strange Master that worships Berserker as a God. He is a man that carries various religions so his speech can't be understood. Berserker was originally an spirit from the Earth called "True Ancestor" but, due to Gatou's misconceptions that say "she = God" her status downgraded from Planet to God, making her unable to properly display her abilities. During battle her Noble Phantasm uses gravity as means of attack, causing great damage.

So Arcueid > Other True Ancestors > God > Solomon (Living) > Goetia

Unless Goetia has some ability I'm forgetting about that lets him survive indefinitely against someone more powerful than him, Arcueid wins.

Yes, because Arc can barely beat Amatersu whilst goetias plan is said by Tanamoa to be as big as a threat as 3 Yokai. not only does Goetia beat Wodmine who beat (nerfed) Zeus who is easily stronger than the likes Of amatersu and the white titan.

So instead you have God/Allah (abrahmic) (who may or not be Akasha itself or be sitting on it) >>> Types >>>> Solomon (As A grand with ALL the Magecraft humanity has)> = Goetia >> Alien God >>> Wodmine =/= Zeus > Earths Counterforce (Stronger than the one is tsuki because it has a throne and pruning) > 7th Form White Titan > Amaterasu and the other yokai > Beast Cath Culag (Fou) > Pseudo Type Arc = Void Shiki (As a servant who wants to protect ritsuka) >>>> Grand Servants >>> Mooncell >> BB = Extra Arc (Who BARELY has a chance in beating Amatersu) >>> Divine Spirits >>> Regular Ass DAA (TA's) Members (Excluding Zeltretch who actually got weaker. And type mercury who fodderizes any of the regular born ones)

Arc only has a small chance to beat Amaterasu in Extra because she's weakened. Did you even read the material statement I posted?

Zeus isn't stronger than Sefar considering he needed to fuse with the other Olympians to repel her.

God being Akasha itself is purely your own headcanon. Such a thing is never implied and there's no reason why a god would be above the Types considering True Ancestors are above gods.

@tsotso said:

@the_metabee said:

@tsotso said:

Goetia stated that Solomon when alive could have stopped him.

He says this when confronting Roman/Servant Solomon without knowing about Ars Nova and how the rings can be used to weaken Goetia. Therefore the statement is about power, not hax.

Arcueid is the strongest of the True Ancestors who are superior to Divine Spirits such as the god who gave Solomon his powers.
Divine Spirits are downgraded version of these Gods in a servant container. Not there actual true forms. such as tiamat actually being a full blown god, when she was a beast.

Fate/complete material IV: Extra Material -Fate/EXTRA- Characters - Gatou Monji & Berserker, p.254

Gatou Monji is an strange Master that worships Berserker as a God. He is a man that carries various religions so his speech can't be understood. Berserker was originally an spirit from the Earth called "True Ancestor" but, due to Gatou's misconceptions that say "she = God" her status downgraded from Planet to God, making her unable to properly display her abilities. During battle her Noble Phantasm uses gravity as means of attack, causing great damage.

So Arcueid > Other True Ancestors > God > Solomon (Living) > Goetia

Unless Goetia has some ability I'm forgetting about that lets him survive indefinitely against someone more powerful than him, Arcueid wins.

Yes, because Arc can barely beat Amatersu whilst goetias plan is said by Tanamoa to be as big as a threat as 3 Yokai. not only does Goetia beat Wodmine who beat (nerfed) Zeus who is easily stronger than the likes Of amatersu and the white titan.

So instead you have God/Allah (abrahmic) (who may or not be Akasha itself or be sitting on it) >>> Types >>>> Solomon (As A grand with ALL the Magecraft humanity has)> = Goetia >> Alien God >>> Wodmine =/= Zeus > Earths Counterforce (Stronger than the one is tsuki because it has a throne and pruning) > 7th Form White Titan > Amaterasu and the other yokai > Beast Cath Culag (Fou) > Pseudo Type Arc = Void Shiki (As a servant who wants to protect ritsuka) >>>> Grand Servants >>> Mooncell >> BB = Extra Arc (Who BARELY has a chance in beating Amatersu) >>> Divine Spirits >>> Regular Ass DAA (TA's) Members (Excluding Zeltretch who actually got weaker. And type mercury who fodderizes any of the regular born ones)

Arc only has a small chance to beat Amaterasu in Extra because she's weakened. Did you even read the material statement I posted?

yes and i even said she has a small chance from her being downgraded? u tweakin my guy?

Zeus isn't stronger than Sefar considering he needed to fuse with the other Olympians to repel her.

yeah, the same Zeus who is still fused with them, and actually has the cronus crown. which didnt only repel her but beat her. this Zeus bodies 3rd form sefar who was already threating the mooncell.

God being Akasha itself is purely your own headcanon. Such a thing is never implied and there's no reason why a god would be above the Types considering True Ancestors are above gods.

Have you read KKK? not only does the below image confirm this, visually and not a fucking old ass statement that gets countered in todays setting. you have true magicians thinking any mf who touches the root becomes "God" or God is simply just there in it. (Plus weve already seens gods dont have to come from human beliefs)

Anyways thats some cap if ive ever heard one. there not above gods period. the likes of chaos zeus etc are all forms of true gods. tell you whats not? divine spirits. there discounted version of them, theres a reason some gods like shiva are creating conceptual universes from killing fodders because earth divinites have that much weight to the actions (and the incerntion of kama by shivas third eye which is meant to destroy universes turned her into one), what makes you think Achetype, barely even a type. barely has the same counterforce (not even servants) cant even affect humans with her marble phantasm. is above that?

Abrhamic God > = [ ] > = "Akashic records" (result of the true void and the shit everyone in the nasuverse is connected to).

And for series wise? GO (With Learning with manga blowing the rest out of the water) >>> Etella >> CCC = Extra >>>> Tsukihime/melty blood etc >>>>> KnK (with void carrying the honestly fodder verse) >>>>> Fate Ap >> Fate Stay night/HA

@the_metabee:

sure dude, ill take it from the person who doesnt play fgo.

Quit the deflection and show me a scan of Void using her connection to Akasha anywhere in GO. I'll wait.

Not until she pulls up as a beast with some cool akasha connection, which would serve to make GO as a series the best of nasus work.

Assumption and headcanon. Fact is Manaka is limited by her magic circuits, while Void isn't.

"THE WHOLE NASUVERSE" were street pole level.

Tell that to Nrvnqsr who required the destruction of an entire continent in order to be killed, to Wallachia using 30% of Arcueid's power to drop the moon, to Judgement splitting a continent in half with her mere death scream, to Type Jupiter scorching a continent after being destroyed or to an apprentice Aoko blowing up a sentient moon. Old Type Moon has always been a power house. Servants are fodders in comparison.

No fate Extra

And instead i'm quite sure that Nasu already had the god tiers of Extra in mind when saying this. As Kiara was True Demon level.

yes im saying arc cant handle a servant. the likes of maxwells demon and astoflo would be invincble (even to shit that ignores invinciblity other than okitas np i belive).

Lmao. Arcueid can stomp Demon Lords who are vastly superior to True Ancestors who can casually stomp DAAs and by extension Servants. Arcueid is far beyond lightning speed and multicontinental, you think she can't handle a bunch of supersonic building (mountain level with wank) fodders?

and from what your saying. youve proved you havent played CCC, GO, or extella.

Ironic that you are telling me that i haven't played CCC.

To your logic? hes 9d+ cope harder. Sefar in her 3rd form threatend the "8d mooncell" your favorite verse is getting passivley stoke down by lighting.

Sefar is from a completely different timeline with different lore. How many times do i have to repeat this? The Moon Cell in Extella has none of the statements that the original Moon Cell did. Zeus is fodder.

Expect main timeline Amatersu does scale, because shes the only mf who survived sefars attack.

Premise: Amaterasu survived Sefar's attacks

Conclusion: Amaterasu scales to Extra

Do you notice how the premise is completely irrelevant to the conclusion? How does Amaterasu surviving Sefar means that she scales to a different timeline like Extra, where she is further amped by conceptual space?

its not even diffrent comsology, its just that nasu was trying to figure out what killed the gods.

Desperate cope. If you think it's the same cosmology, then tell me: why does the Moon Cell in Extra just wanted to record humanity and was going to delete Hakuno for being irrelevant data, while the Moon Cell in Extella gave Hakuno a Regalia to defend against the Umbral star? Why Base BB had STAR rank stats, while Servants that scale to the Moon Cell in Extella have normal Servant stats? Why is Gilgamesh literally affected by the far side in Extella, while he wasn't in CCC? It's not just a power thing, the lore doesn't fit. Trying to argue Extra using Extella is the equivalent of using the Tsukihime remake to argue for the original. Extella had its own events of Extra and CCC, but they are heavily modified and nothing like the originals. Nasu even wrote Extella Zero as its own version of Extra because the events do not fit together.

so-called BB after trying to reject the lighting bolt that deleted her authority.

Her authority is irrelevant for Ten Crowns, which negs anything Zeus can do.

yeah, a debuffed Amatersu, who would be debuffed by the sane full power extra arc.

A BUFFED Amaterasu, remember that she is in conceptual space.

It actually says Berserker Arcueid with her sanity restored is "no longer the strongest" because conceptual space can amp gods more than normal. And this is still a restricted Arcueid.

Its funny because nasu made GO the comp main force of his works. this already invalidates your fan fiction. they scale unless you want to belive the earth randomly died so the mooncell could do whatever the fuck it wanted, Go scaling to extella isnt just from kiara. its from the white titan and Yokai who are primarily in CCC

GO being the primary work of his main canon means nothing, considering it relies on other stuff still. And GO isn't even canon to the OG Tsukihime, but the Remake. So what it says has no bearing on the original. But there are no contradictions to the top 3 and Goetia has feats capping below what Tsukihime low-tiers can do and scale to.

Forget CCC.

The White Titan was never even mentioned in CCC. Shows how much you know. Only Tamamo was in Extra.

Goes to say how unfished CCC was huh, anyways the mooncell didnt change. and would still get destroyed by tanamo or Amatersu. they didnt change, so sefar scales to the old CCC. stop trying to dodge this shit with that

You are the only one dodging the point. CCC and Extra do not scale to Extella and GO. That's a fact. Stop trying to lump them together when there is so much contradicting material and different lore and power levels. Even who is stronger than who changes in Extra with Nero surviving a direct hit from Excalibur Galatine and beating Servant Buddha.

when weve already seen people like goetia view into CCC.

Extella's CCC, since CCC happened in Extella's version in the same way Extra did, except it was completely different just like Extra (Extella Zero).

bro your godgate or lordballer.

Godgate thinks Gilgamesh is in real life while Lordballer has him above Akasha. You have clearly no argument here.

"none of the servants had ten crowns."

They specifically said they got hers...

A new list would. new info would. now your just sounding clingly to the old info. learning with manga solos

Word of God says Archetype > Void (origin is Akasha and can do just about anything with her connection to it) >>> Primordial Demons >>>> everything else in the verse like CCC characters.

and if you keep arguing for multiversal mooncell, ill leave you with this. the actual universe there talking about is solar system in size. so there not multiversal. there multisystem, get it cause like multi solar system? anyways you have no ways of disproving my claims so you try to gaslight me with this concede bullshit.

This whole time your only argument for CCC and extra was. "TheRe NoT in the same timeline" your not disproving anything crimson. accept it or move on. i dont want to debate someone who doesnt know what change is and thinks the begining of the series statements works with current statements when there new info.

Which is why stars and galaxies are shown in the Moon Cell? Why a sun was in one realm too on top of these many stars and galaxies. Hakuno falling millions of light years?

Ok pal.

And you make up completely arbitrary shit like how old statements are invalid even though they aren't contradicted. You have an agenda and it's clear. You're bias.

Goetia got clapped so hard by normal Servants that he had to resort to de-summoning them. He is fodder.

@the_metabee:

yeah, the same Zeus who is still fused with them, and actually has the cronus crown. which didnt only repel her but beat her. this Zeus bodies 3rd form sefar who was already threating the mooncell.

He didn't beat her. Nasu said it was a draw with Sefar withdrawing and later being defeated by Excalibur.

Have you read KKK?not only does the below image confirm this, visually and not a fucking old ass statement that gets countered in todays setting. you have true magicians thinking any mf who touches the root becomes "God" or God is simply just there in it. (Plus weve already seens gods dont have to come from human beliefs)

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. The term "god" is used constantly to refer to multiple different things. Just because the Abrahamic God is called "god" doesn't mean that everything else that's also called that is the same. Zeus is a "god", Amaterasu is a "god". Are they the same being? No.

Anyways thats some cap if ive ever heard one. there not above gods period.

"pErIoD" is not an argument. Either you provide proof for your claim or you're wrong (which you obviously are because of the Extra material statement).

the likes of chaos zeus etc are all forms of true gods. tell you whats not? divine spirits. there discounted version of them, theres a reason some gods like shiva are creating conceptual universes from killing fodders because earth divinites have that much weight to the actions (and the incerntion of kama by shivas third eye which is meant to destroy universes turned her into one), what makes you think Achetype, barely even a type. barely has the same counterforce (not even servants) cant even affect humans with her marble phantasm. is above that?

Can you point out even one anti-feat that proves she's not? The Extra material statement says True Ancestors are a tier higher than gods, not just Divine Spirits. And an official statement >>>>> your baseless claims.

Abrhamic God > = [ ] > = "Akashic records" (result of the true void and the shit everyone in the nasuverse is connected to).

Based on what?

And for series wise? GO (With Learning with manga blowing the rest out of the water) >>> Etella >> CCC = Extra >>>> Tsukihime/melty blood etc >>>>> KnK (with void carrying the honestly fodder verse) >>>>> Fate Ap >> Fate Stay night/HA

Completely irrelevant to the discussion and doesn't have anything to do with what I've said.

I responded to you instead of crimson because you actually boast some knowledge on fate, and that particular statement was to show the diffrence in power and what is actually relevant to the discussion.

I responded to you instead of crimson because you actually boast some knowledge on fate.

Concession accepted.

@crimsonslayer85 said:

@the_metabee:

sure dude, ill take it from the person who doesnt play fgo.

Quit the deflection and show me a scan of Void using her connection to Akasha anywhere in GO. I'll wait.

Lol, when im using her connection to root to buff her buster.

Not until she pulls up as a beast with some cool akasha connection, which would serve to make GO as a series the best of nasus work.

Assumption and headcanon. Fact is Manaka is limited by her magic circuits, while Void isn't.

You havent play GO or arcade so i wouldnt put it past you to ignore it and downplay Manaka, someone who activley on the grind.

"THE WHOLE NASUVERSE" were street pole level.

Tell that to Nrvnqsr who required the destruction of an entire continent in order to be killed, to Wallachia using 30% of Arcueid's power to drop the moon, to Judgement splitting a continent in half with her mere death scream, to Type Jupiter scorching a continent after being destroyed or to an apprentice Aoko blowing up a sentient moon. Old Type Moon has always been a power house. Servants are fodders in comparison.

Did you not get the street pole level refrence to that of servants and gils supposed EA being the strongest and street poles not being effected? but current servants being fodder in comparsion? i dont think so. the TA's and DAAS are statues (Cant wait for chaos to come to go like sion did)

No fate Extra

And instead i'm quite sure that Nasu already had the god tiers of Extra in mind when saying this. As Kiara was True Demon level.

Has the god tiers in extra in mind a year or two in its development? also kiara herself only has an anti planet NP, she isnt killing hercales who survived an anti planet np twice with just a little bit of back up.

yes im saying arc cant handle a servant. the likes of maxwells demon and astoflo would be invincble (even to shit that ignores invinciblity other than okitas np i belive).

Lmao. Arcueid can stomp Demon Lords who are vastly superior to True Ancestors who can casually stomp DAAs and by extension Servants. Arcueid is far beyond lightning speed and multicontinental, you think she can't handle a bunch of supersonic building (mountain level with wank) fodders?

Yes because she wouldnt be able to hit them. plus shes dumb enough not to solva a math problem.

and from what your saying. youve proved you havent played CCC, GO, or extella.

Ironic that you are telling me that i haven't played CCC.

With the servant downplay? no you havent. and how that shit is basically Nasus japanese archive? no i doubt it. you can play the likes of Tsukihime, and its related spin off fighting games. but CCC? nah you just getting that from what youve seen people debate on.

To your logic? hes 9d+ cope harder. Sefar in her 3rd form threatend the "8d mooncell" your favorite verse is getting passivley stoke down by lighting.

Sefar is from a completely different timeline with different lore. How many times do i have to repeat this? The Moon Cell in Extella has none of the statements that the original Moon Cell did. Zeus is fodder.

Youve got to be fucking with me right? the moon cell stays the exact same. and wasnt even impressive in warping reality without a dead planet.

Expect main timeline Amatersu does scale, because shes the only mf who survived sefars attack.

Premise: Amaterasu survived Sefar's attacks

Conclusion: Amaterasu scales to Extra

Do you notice how the premise is completely irrelevant to the conclusion? How does Amaterasu surviving Sefar means that she scales to a different timeline like Extra, where she is further amped by conceptual space?

Because this Amatersau is the same one in Extra. shes already above those "TiMeline" arguments and is the only real survivng member of the Gods in panhuman history (and shes never changed) stop trying to downplay other characters the second there out of CCC when it should be the opposite way around (CCC characters being weaker outside the mooncell)

its not even diffrent comsology, its just that nasu was trying to figure out what killed the gods.

Desperate cope. If you think it's the same cosmology, then tell me: why does the Moon Cell in Extra just wanted to record humanity and was going to delete Hakuno for being irrelevant data, while the Moon Cell in Extella gave Hakuno a Regalia to defend against the Umbral star? Why Base BB had STAR rank stats, while Servants that scale to the Moon Cell in Extella have normal Servant stats? Why is Gilgamesh literally affected by the far side in Extella, while he wasn't in CCC? It's not just a power thing, the lore doesn't fit. Trying to argue Extra using Extella is the equivalent of using the Tsukihime remake to argue for the original. Extella had its own events of Extra and CCC, but they are heavily modified and nothing like the originals. Nasu even wrote Extella Zero as its own version of Extra because the events do not fit together.

Fundementally the same thing. there is no BB so there is no star ranks. there is no- actually i think Gil might have crossed over/has memories of CCC in extella, But the mooncell stays the same. if the white titan wasnt there it would continue recording data (And we already know mooncell grail wainners get to control it for one wish or something its not far of a stretch to give regalia rings).

so-called BB after trying to reject the lighting bolt that deleted her authority.

Her authority is irrelevant for Ten Crowns, which negs anything Zeus can do.

Sure, your on sheer amounts of copium rn. Zeus is frying her ten crowns.

yeah, a debuffed Amatersu, who would be debuffed by the sane full power extra arc.

A BUFFED Amaterasu, remember that she is in conceptual space.

It actually says Berserker Arcueid with her sanity restored is "no longer the strongest" because conceptual space can amp gods more than normal. And this is still a restricted Arcueid.

Im saying the only fucking way arc can beat Amatersu is to debuff her to hell. then she might have a small sliver of a chance to defeat her. like wtf u talking bout?

Its funny because nasu made GO the comp main force of his works. this already invalidates your fan fiction. they scale unless you want to belive the earth randomly died so the mooncell could do whatever the fuck it wanted, Go scaling to extella isnt just from kiara. its from the white titan and Yokai who are primarily in CCC

GO being the primary work of his main canon means nothing, considering it relies on other stuff still. And GO isn't even canon to the OG Tsukihime, but the Remake. So what it says has no bearing on the original. But there are no contradictions to the top 3 and Goetia has feats capping below what Tsukihime low-tiers can do and scale to.

Forget CCC.

Who cares about og tsukihime. theres a reason that shit was made. to revamp the series and to go more accrodlingly to the likes of GO's rules.

Go doesnt rely on other stuff, hell its activley changing that shit. like the "Well what actually happened was sefar this sion this blah blah" retconned, also no goetia doesnt cap at tsukihime low tiers. he kills all of them with light bands and incernates there timeline while still watching it from GO's universe (Because his clairvoyance broken like that)

The White Titan was never even mentioned in CCC. Shows how much you know. Only Tamamo was in Extra.

No, i know nameless was in there as well. dont know how he won though.

Goes to say how unfished CCC was huh, anyways the mooncell didnt change. and would still get destroyed by tanamo or Amatersu. they didnt change, so sefar scales to the old CCC. stop trying to dodge this shit with that

You are the only one dodging the point. CCC and Extra do not scale to Extella and GO. That's a fact. Stop trying to lump them together when there is so much contradicting material and different lore and power levels. Even who is stronger than who changes in Extra with Nero surviving a direct hit from Excalibur Galatine and beating Servant Buddha.

Funny AF rn, your arguing things changed for the worse and saying it got weaker? sure bud. a 4th form sefar breaks both the mooncell and in Extra and extella.

when weve already seen people like goetia view into CCC.

Extella's CCC, since CCC happened in Extella's version in the same way Extra did, except it was completely different just like Extra (Extella Zero).

Tf? now your saying its automatically extellas CCC when even BB has her memories of the og CCC.

bro your godgate or lordballer.

Godgate thinks Gilgamesh is in real life while Lordballer has him above Akasha. "And I think Arcuied is connected to the root" You have clearly no argument here.

Read again.

"none of the servants had ten crowns."

They specifically said they got hers...

Word of God says Archetype > Void (origin is Akasha and can do just about anything with her connection to it) >>> Primordial Demons >>>> everything else in the verse like CCC characters.

and if you keep arguing for multiversal mooncell, ill leave you with this. the actual universe there talking about is solar system in size. so there not multiversal. there multisystem, get it cause like multi solar system? anyways you have no ways of disproving my claims so you try to gaslight me with this concede bullshit.

This whole time your only argument for CCC and extra was. "TheRe NoT in the same timeline" your not disproving anything crimson. accept it or move on. i dont want to debate someone who doesnt know what change is and thinks the begining of the series statements works with current statements when there new info.

Which is why stars and galaxies are shown in the Moon Cell? Why a sun was in one realm too on top of these many stars and galaxies. Hakuno falling millions of light years?

All digital, in4b Goetia is complex multiversal 9d from crimsons logic because his rm has stars in it too.

Ok pal.

And you make up completely arbitrary shit like how old statements are invalid even though they aren't contradicted. You have an agenda and it's clear. You're bias.

coming from the same person who wants arc to be connected to Akasha, that's rich. 15-year-old statement that doesnt include anything from fate at all = Everything in current day fate to you crimson and that's gotta be dissapoitng.

Goetia got clapped so hard by normal Servants that he had to resort to de-summoning them. He is fodder.

Have you watched the movie? let alone played solomons singularity? No, yeah i could tell.

cant reply on top of that, but your are actually a dumbass if you think thats what they only meant. an authority on the same level or surpassing that of human genome (or origin) is negging CCC, gods in go already have there own creation story and there own shit.

Anyways the same fodder goetia? creates an infinite volume tiamat. Same fodder goetia? incernates all of tsukihime with even more ease than he did with Go because there counterforce is just a mana battery.


argue for Arc to have a connection? Goetia has 7 Grails he could effectivley use to also wish grant like Void and your wanked arc. and grails use it more effectively and give accses to other shit too.

What Goetia Can Do to Real non head canon arc

• Turn her into a demon god pillar
• Send Her soul to purgatory (She has No feats of resisting such things)
• Chill in his time temple and nuke her
• Destroy the planet making her fodder
• tell his demon gods to create "events" so she will drown in Nasuverse La La land hell.

All the while without being affected or in range for any of or hax. she doesn't even have the all-knowing nature the likes of Manaka and void boast from being connected to the root.

hell she wouldn't even know where to find him. and what would actually happen is that goetia goes along with his plan with Archetype getting burn tf out of her for some extra magical energy.

and ill take it crimson quits if he doesnt find another dumbass arguement for arc after derailing the shit to say CCC (4d at best) is the strongest.

@the_metabee:

Lol, when im using her connection to root to buff her buster.

Because that's what a vast connection to Akasha does. Ok. lol

And again, Void in GO is a shadow of her real self. This is confirmed.

You havent play GO or arcade so i wouldnt put it past you to ignore it and downplay Manaka, someone who activley on the grind.

Arcade isn't even the same story or canon as GO, but Manaka has nothing there that puts her on Void's level.

Did you not get the street pole level refrence to that of servants and gils supposed EA being the strongest and street poles not being effected? but current servants being fodder in comparsion? i dont think so. the TA's and DAAS are statues (Cant wait for chaos to come to go like sion did)

I don't get what you're saying here, but if you're saying TAs and DAAs are statues in the sense of slow compared to Servants, it's literally the reverse.

Servants consistently cap around supersonic speed.

TAs and top-tier DAAs that can fight and kill them move at well above lightning speeds, since they can react to Roa amping his entire speed to lightning level by combining it with his lightning magecraft, which cannot be chalked up to aim dodging.

Has the god tiers in extra in mind a year or two in its development? also kiara herself only has an anti planet NP, she isnt killing hercales who survived an anti planet np twice with just a little bit of back up.

Kiara's NP isn't even a proper attack, but a hax that melts every sentient being into an eternal pleasure. It being anti-planet means nothing, especially since it says it is not limited to Earth and celestial bodies in Nasuverse are not normal planets and can vary in size and cosmology.

It also says Kiara is of universe scale and power (much higher than normal universe level given how big Nasuverse celestial bodies can be).

Yes because she wouldnt be able to hit them.

Tsukihime low-tiers are casual lightning timers.

That's massively above supersonic Fate.

And if you use light speed wank, ignoring all of the anti-feats, apprentice Aoko blew up a moon in about a second, which is already around light speed, and she's below any relevant Tsukihime low-tier. I can wank too if you do.

plus shes dumb enough not to solva a math problem.

Shows that you don't know Tsukihime, along with that not being relevant at all.

Arcueid isn't dumb. She's dumb socially since she spent almost all of her 800 years in life either in a castle alone or murdering things.

With the servant downplay? no you havent. and how that shit is basically Nasus japanese archive? no i doubt it. you can play the likes of Tsukihime, and its related spin off fighting games. but CCC? nah you just getting that from what youve seen people debate on.

Shows how much you don't know. The entire Gilgamesh route is 100% translated and has been for a long time. And it's the exact same as all of the other Servant routes except having Gilgamesh instead. The only one that has some noticeable difference is the True Route, and even then it isn't huge until the very end.

the moon cell stays the exact same. and wasnt even impressive in warping reality without a dead planet.

The Moon Cell is not the exact same.

The Moon Cell was only made to observe Earth and humans in the original Extra and CCC. The Holy Grail War part only existed even because Twice manipulated the laws of the Moon Cell to create it to find someone strong enough to take control of the core, understand his ideals, and change the course of humanity to what he believed to be the best course. It was even going to delete Hakuno due to her being irregular data in the end.

The Moon Cell in Extella created the Holy Grail War itself to find the most suitable master and Servant to defend against Sefar and the Umbral Star, giving them Regalias. Ignoring how massively different Extra was in the Extella timelines even (Extella Zero short story summary), this is incompatible lore.

Because this Amatersau is the same one in Extra.

Nope.

Because you said so isn't an argument.

Fundementally the same thing.

Everything I just mentioned shows the fundamentals are anything but the same.

And actually read Extella Zero. It is massively different.

(And we already know mooncell grail wainners get to control it for one wish or something its not far of a stretch to give regalia rings).

Which it explicitly never did in the original and tried to delete Hakuno.

Sure, your on sheer amounts of copium rn. Zeus is frying her ten crowns.

You need to debate your fanfiction version of Nasuverse somewhere else. We're discussing the real versions (old and new canon).

Im saying the only way arc can beat Amatersu is to debuff her to hell. then she might have a small sliver of a chance to defeat her. like wtf u talking bout?

You're ignoring all arguments because they don't suit your agenda and don't let the series you like win.

Conceptual space amps gods. Extra Arcueid is restricted as a Berserker Servant, lost her sanity and abilities, and got her status downgraded from Planet to God. With one of these restrictions released (regaining her sanity), she is stated to be "no longer" the strongest because conceptual space amps gods massively beyond their natural existences. This means that even this nerfed into the ground Arcueid would be the strongest if not for being in conceptual space. And even then, she has a small chance against Amaterasu.

An unrestricted Arcueid? She ragdolls.

Go doesnt rely on other stuff, hell its activley changing that shit.

It does and even the supersonic speed feats are still in GO, lining up with the mountains of other Fate supersonic speed feats. You already admitted to not playing anything beyond GO, so you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

like the "Well what actually happened was sefar this sion this blah blah"

Vague random things you say mean nothing.

retconned, also no goetia doesnt cap at tsukihime low tiers. he kills all of them with light bands and incernates there timeline while still watching it from GO's universe (Because his clairvoyance broken like that)

Dude got bodied by Supersonic Servants to the point he had to de-summon them.

30% Arcueid is already overkill. She blitz him and just throws a moon at him.

No, i know nameless was in there as well. dont know how he won though.

I meant out of the Yokai, since you mentioned them.

Funny AF rn, your arguing things changed for the worse and saying it got weaker? sure bud. a 4th form sefar breaks both the mooncell and in Extra and extella.

Sefar was never mentioned in the original Extra or CCC because her and the Umbral Star did not exist.

Tf? now your saying its automatically extellas CCC when even BB has her memories of the og CCC.

Never says OG CCC.

We know Extella has its own events of CCC in the same way Extella has its own events of Extra, just massively different.

All digital,

Which is why it affects the real world.

Concession accepted. I notice how once your stupid claims get completely blown out of the water, you resort to it just being digital.

See how bias you are?

coming from the same person who wants arc to be connected to Akasha, that's rich. 15-year-old statement that doesnt include anything from fate at all = Everything in current day fate to you crimson and that's gotta be dissapoitng.

Fate/GO fanboy who's admitted to only playing GO thinks every statement has to be brand new and from Fate.

Doesn't work like that.

Have you watched the movie? let alone played solomons singularity? No, yeah i could tell.

Notice how you don't actually address what I say.

Anyways the same fodder goetia? creates an infinite volume tiamat.

Which doesn't translate to power considering she was compared to a hydrogen bomb and even her later forms where held off by Servants.

Same fodder goetia? incernates all of tsukihime with even more ease than he did with Go because there counterforce is just a mana battery.

Are you referring to Arcueid's connection to Gaia?

You do know that Gaia =/= Alaya's counterforce, right? And OG Tsukihime Gaia has infinite mana, so lol.

Goetia has 7 Grails he could effectivley use to also wish grant like Void and your wanked arc. and grails use it more effectively and give accses to other shit too.

The entire plot twist of the Holy Grail was that it isn't omnipotent and is very limited in application. Gilgamesh claims even Enkidu could become a better wish granter. And the Holy Grail could be filled by the magical energy of 7 Servants. It's completely unimpressive.

If you want to pretend Extra is the same canon then this is the scaling you'd get, even IGNORING Archetype being connected to Akasha and above Void.

Archetype-Earth >>>>>> Type-Moon = Red Arcueid (100% Arcueid that was compared to Type-Moon several times) >> 50% Arcueid from Melty Blood > 30% Arcueid >>> Demon Lords (full power True Ancestors that succumb to their bloodlust and use their full power) >>>> normal True Ancestors of various power levels and tiers >>> Gods. And various Tsukihime characters by the time of Melty Blood can contend with or even beat 50% Arcueid. Some characters from Tsukihime are above or can completely body 100% Arcueid. Goetia is getting clapped no matter how you look at it. Even top-tier Dead Apostles can fight Arcueid and even beat some of her stronger variations.

It's funny how if you want to say everything is canon to each other, we have Extra putting all True Ancestors above Gods, and the majority of the Tsukihime cast can contend with, if not outright beat or body the strongest one.

My Notifications are getting bombed by this one message lol

@the_metabee:

First part about her retreating is right, second of her being defeated by Excalibur again? nowhere seen.

Nasu isn't obligated to spoonfeed you with the precise words you require. It's a matter of simple logic.

- Nasu only said Zeus repelled her, not that he defeated her.

- There was nobody on Earth who could defeat Sefar and Excalibur was the only thing that did.

Therefore Sefar was repelled and defeated by Excalibur as there is no other possibility.

Theres usually a distinction. God of the abrhamic religon is always refered to as God with captile G, while the others usually have god,gods etc.

Can you prove that "God" with capital G can only refer to the Abrahamic god? Because your point is the "Proof by Example" logical fallacy.

what i do know is that the abrhamic God has been featured less and less in the fate franchise and the story (For jeanne) was altered to that of the counterforce telling jeanne what to do.

Yes, and?

again divine spirits are not even full fledged gods, how can a TA's who are in the same range as DAA, who are servant level now be on that level?

Firstly, DAAs vary a lot in terms of strength so your claim here is inherently flawed. Some of them like Primate Murder and ORT are way above Servant level while others would lose to stay night Servants. That's a huge range.

Secondly, the statement in the Extra material (which you still seem to have not read) says that True Ancestors are a tier above Gods, not Divine Spirits.

Hell theres never been a DAA or TA who has surpassed time? no.

"They are said to be Planet-class Spirits, a rank higher than Divine Spirits. As they receive backup from the planet, it can be said that the limits of their actions are the limits of nature itself."

This statement doesn't say TAs are only above Divine Spirits and not above Gods. Go read the Extra material statement.

Divine Spirits do not equal that of gods. weve seen the distinction time and time again, especially in LB 5. so stop holding onto that.

Go read the Extra material statement. It says Arcueid is above Gods, not just above Divine Spirits.

"Baseless claims" Sure, we know Amatersu herself had already been cut off from non linear time, and that divinties (gods) by nature have a stronger actions and consequnces when using there abilties and effect the world more than that of the DAA and TA's.

Where is it stated that TAs are below Gods in terms of how they affect the world?

On the above, statements for true magicians and more.

You haven't presented anything which proves the Abrahamic God is equal to the Root. You just declared it with no evidence and pretended that your headcanon is an official statement.

I responded to you instead of crimson because you actually boast some knowledge on fate, and that particular statement was to show the diffrence in power and what is actually relevant to the discussion.

Not only was your series power comparison not supported by anything but also had no arguments for why Goetia is superior to Arcueid, which if you didn't know is the discussion.

True Ansecotrs arent above gods there above divine spirits who arent full fledged.

"Divine Spirit (Shinrei?) are Gods ( Kami?) that deteriorated as the Age of Gods came to a close. It is the classification for the highest rank of Nature Spirit."

^ not even their true forms. so the scaling wouldn't include Gods

😐

So you also came here thinking Arc could win?

Then lets move this from in series scaling to how Goetia merks Arc in his plan to become the planet.

Before yall reply to that first actually talk about how Arc can beat goetia @tsotso@crimsonslayer85

so when it actually comes to seeing who would win yall are going to quit? no Akasha argument? no 15 year old statement (That got invalidated by Nasu later on)

"Gah! That monster is too powerful not even Arc-chan can beat it."

- Nasu Talking About ORT

@the_metabee:

Stop Quoting Panhuman history when im talking about the greek lostbelt history.

The only diveregence of the Greek Lostbelt is that the Olympians compbined and survived as a result. There's nothing in the Lostbelt implying something other than Excalibur could have killed Sefar and since Nasu only said Zeus repelled her, Excalibur is the only possible explanation for why she died as there's nothing else that could've killed her.

1. We already know its a singular enity

Which proves what exactly?

2. if it was mentioning all the other gods it would've said so

You're arguing from what wasn't said rather than something that was.

3. we usually see a big emphasis with Juduae and christians to use it that way

Appeal to tradition.

It means hes proablly isnt in the equation for gods.

The word "proablly" (lol) isn't an argument. You still haven't presented anything which proves God = The Root. That's just your hypothesis.

like the claim Ta's are stronger than gods (divine spirits)

Yet again I'm telling you to go read the Extra statement. It says they are stronger than Gods, not Divine Spirits. Why is it so hard for you to read???

without taking into account there strengths. but hey WoG right? so it cant be contradicted right? wrong.

Can you point out where exactly it's apparently contradicted?

Your scan never says that, it talks about divine spirits.

sigh

Fate/complete material IV: Extra Material -Fate/EXTRA- Characters - Gatou Monji & Berserker, p.254

Gatou Monji is an strange Master that worships Berserker as a God. He is a man that carries various religions so his speech can't be understood. Berserker was originally an spirit from the Earth called "True Ancestor" but, due to Gatou's misconceptions that say "she = God" her status downgraded from Planet to God, making her unable to properly display her abilities. During battle her Noble Phantasm uses gravity as means of attack, causing great damage.

Where does it say Divine Spirit??? It says God with a capital G three times which also debunks your baseless hypothesis that "God" with capital G can only refer to the Abrahamic god.

Do TAs do the shit shiva does? do TAs have the effect of divinity on the world? fuck no lol.

"Appeal to Ignorance" fallacy. We haven't seen nearly as much from the TAs as we have from gods which is why the latter's feats seem more impressive than the former. But that doesn't mean TAs aren't above gods as we have official confirmation for that.

Honestly id like to wait and see, there's some big as coincidence with Jesus being born and the first magic being obtained, could be wrong tho.

Your points rely on you interpreting your own baseless headcanon as an official statement so you probably are.

😐

So you also came here thinking Arc could win?

Then lets move this from in series scaling to how Goetia merks Arc in his plan to become the planet.

Arcueid is above gods who were not included in Goetia's plan's time range. The burden of proof falls on you to prove Ars Almadel Salomonis can incinerate Arc.

@the_metabee:

The fuck? Arcade just cucking GO with its grands n shit. anyways Arthur was already saying he was hunting down a potential beast. and who else would that be other than Manaka, which if it was true then she going to be more powerful.

A group of Servants can avoid being blitzed by Beasts and hold them off under some circumstances.

This will not be happening with a serious Void in her real body.

Ignore the FTL servants okay...

You mean the mountains upon mountains upon mountains of anti-feats that explain in detail how they are in the Supersonic speed range? Even in GO?

And if you want to do that, again, the same can be done with Tsukihime, but of course, to a higher extent.

Hell, if you want to pretend that Extra scales to everything else and everything is canon to each other, all True Ancestors > Gods and Amaterasu.

Amaterasu can move outside of the time axis. Guess who can fight the strongest True Ancestor, with some even being capable of beating or stomping her at full power (Red Arcueid)?

Pretty much every Tsukihime character. Who are all below Archetype-Earth.

Your talking as if not even iskandars chariot moves at lighting speeds.

It explicitly doesn't:

Though the tree trunks were all very thick, for the sharp sickles flying at 400 kilometers an hour, it was as easy as sawing wood.-Fate/Zero Light Novel.

.

There normal ass planets

Yes, a layer of the planet containing a cosmos.

The place where the evil dragon Fafnir finally arrived at the very end of the novels. The Phantasmal Races, having understood that the Age of the Gods was over, ceded the Earth’s surface to humans and moved to this place. The world where humans currently live (including the laws of physics) is like a fabric that thinly extends across the surface of the planet. Beneath that fabric exist the planet known as “Earth.” On the other hand, the Reverse Side of the World is the world as it was before humans lived there… that is, the fabric of the era where Phantasmal Races strode the land. In other words, the Earth is the bottommost layer of the planet, and it is covered by the “Reverse Side of the World”—the place where the laws of the “world” as it once was reigns, and covering that is the “Present World.”- Fate/Apocrypha Material.

Very much a normal planet.

Artemis is an anti planet np with better space destroying feats that got blocked by herc. kiara is making herc look like he was going to be orginally (unbeatble)

Original CCC Kiara is True Demon Level and vastly transcends even the Moon Cell. No.

No it doesnt. its say she has universal influence with how even aliens can find her pretty. also nasu celestial bodies are the same as irl celestial bodies. only thing dif is there mechanics.

Mechanics being different means they aren't the same. And no, it goes way beyond just mechanics.

Also, nice fanfiction you made up regarding Kiara:

Bodhisattva is a Deva [deity] of universe’s scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System. - Fate/EXTRA material- Encyclopedia: Ten Thousand Color Stagnation [Codecast], p.203-204.

Of course, since Nasuverse planets clearly aren't normal and far larger in scale than real life planets, being universal is insanely higher than what it would be in real life.

she wouldnt last with the likes of Rom who is casually ftl.

If you want to wank Servants, then Aoko's beam reached Flat Snark, a moon in space, in a second.

Which is around LS.

That Aoko was massively below her prime self and below pretty much the entire cast of Tsukihime.

You'd have an entire hierarchy of FTL people faster than the others in Tsukihime if you want to use this light speed crap. Fate gets blitzed either way.

Her ass is not smart as school smart in the current day. shes not solving the "math" problem.

This is irrelevant to a fight and already addressed anyways. This really speaks to your level of intelligence more than anything.

Alright then, tell me the events of CCC (To every last detail) if youve played it. (Which i doubt)

That has to be one of the dumbest request I've ever heard. No one is going to mention every last detail of a game they played. That's the most extreme and arbitrary requirement I've ever heard. It would massively derail the thread. I could ask you to do the same with GO and you wouldn't be able to. This shows how desperate you are.

Just because all you play is a phone game and nothing else doesn't mean there aren't others who have gone way beyond that and actually understand Nasuverse.

Im not talking about there functions. im talking about what they have (which doesnt really differ to my knowledge. its a copy and past of the old mooncell with new primary functions)

That's also wrong, like the Extella Moon Cell having the Zero Dark, But the functions are extremely important and the most important thing really to show they aren't the same.

is there anything different about any of the Amatersaus?

Her being a CCC top-tier (though beaten out by Kiara, unrestricted Arcueid, and Buddha) massively puts her beyond her mainline self. This is consistent with Extra's power levels and even lore being massively different from other sets of timelines.

Youve talked about what there primary use they did in the story. not how the other is fundmentally diffrent and cant do what the other can do.

No, I mentioned how they are fundamentally different in their purpose and how they work.

Free time like that only comes once a year.

It's not long at all.

You're ironically spending way more time trying to debate me than what it would take to read that.

so this goes to prove the mooncell never actually had the power to warp the real world

How does the Moon Cell deleting Hakuno correlate with it not being able to effect the outside world, especially since it did it right after Hakuno DID change the outside world?

You do this a lot. You make claims that don't correlate with anything mentioned prior.

Ten Crowns is a concept, what does zeus have? anti concept attacks.

Ten Crowns can negate entire events from happening. Guess what Zeus using an anti-concept is? An event.

Only something ridiculous like MEoDP should be able to destroy something like Ten Crowns, ignoring the fact a user of it could potentially get halted by Ten Crowns before they kill it.

Sounds like your talking about divine spirits more than

Sounds like you're just using your fanfiction over established lore.

feats? no assumption this time.

She's already stated to be "no longer" the strongest when downgraded to a God and restricted as a Servant due to conceptual space amping Gods. Meaning God Arcueid would already be the strongest person outside of conceptual space. An unrestricted True Ancestor Arcueid would be massively above God Arcueid, meaning she'd stomp the rest of Extra from a power perspective. We only need basic logical deduction to prove this.

And she's massively below Archetype-Earth, who's above the real Void Shiki.

Where did i say i havent played anything other than go? are you still talking about the other thread?

Yep, you admitted it.

he was activley fighting them and when they got to become a problem he de summoned them. (not like that shouldve been a problem if they actually had shown the other demon god pillars)

They cut his arm off and landed several hits on him. The fact he was struggling at all shows he's fodder.

And hes coming back in his temple and destroying her timeline. she isnt galaxy level.

Goetia isn't galaxy level outside of one attack he refuses to use in-character because he's saving it for a bootleg wannabe use of the Fifth Magic. And even then, he'd get blitzed.

Tsukihime Arcueid isn't galaxy level, without Gaia amps of course, which has infinite mana in the original Tsukihime.

But she can casually drop moons on people and her power casually can tank that type of stuff at 30% alone, which would paste Goetia and any Servant in a physical fight, ignoring the speed difference.

Extra Arcueid is above all of the multiversal CCC characters and has every ability the Moon Cell has recorded, since the core is just apart of her. Basically BB and Kiara on steroids.

Archetype-Earth is above someone whose origin is Akasha, is apart of Akasha, and has a vast access to Akasha and is capable of doing "just about anything" and can rewrite the laws of creation, events or destroy everything entirely, along with Akasha recording everything in a way similar to the Moon Cell, meaning Void alone would have almost all of the abilities in the Nasuverse, yet is still below Archetype, meaning her access to Akasha is even vaster.

And if you want to pretend that Extra scales to Tsukihime and other series (it doesn't), all True Ancestors are above Gods, with top-tier ones like Amaterasu moving outside of the time axis. All Tsukihime characters that aren't normal human level can at the very least fight 30% Arcueid.

Literally no matter how you look at it, Fate gets pasted.

have the others even appeared?

I just said no.

CCC Mooncell = Extella mooncell, nothing changed just the aliens.

You're basically saying "You're wrong because I said so." That isn't an argument.

has bb ever been in any other media out of CCC and Go?

We know the events of CCC happened in Extella.

if there massivley diffrent why does it make them sound the same as the one in CCC.

The core story in terms of characters is likely similar in CCC's Extella to the original. That's why.

Also, Extella already implies in terms of mechanics and how things work, CCC in Extella is massively different, like Hakuno having 4 Servants.

The real world is solar system in sized as for the universe.

Already disproven. Nasuverse celestial bodies =/= real life ones.

nope, just have to remind you that the mooncells digital space doesnt make sense and shouldnt be treated more real than Kamas conceptual universe.

Concession accepted.

let me ask again, where did i say that?

Here?

Yeah nada, nothing. all i know is GO which basically shakes it head at the old nasuverse with newer feats/statements and characters.

Thank you for throwing away the akasha arc shit. we can now have an actual debate.

I didn't. I was just saying she stomps even without that.

And no, we aren't having an actual debate. There are two people here arguing the facts and one guy spouting his fanfiction at us.

Because you keep on bringing movie fan service and saying goetia got bodied when that wasnt even the case (after they all jumped him he dispatched them one by one, and when they tried to help ritsuka more he desummoned them)

His arm got cut off by Nero. He struggled and traded multiple blows with them evenly. Some of his attacks were countered and blocked. He then de-summoned them.

He was either getting overwhelmed slowly at worst, or thought it was too much trouble to deal with even if he could win and de-summoned them at best. Regardless, he still in just barely above Servant-tier physically, and arguably not even above.

here do you get this hydrogen bomb shit? magicial energy or..? but that doesnt change the fact that her volume is infinte (and is already effecting the real world better than the mooncell in CCC who only observes)

This wasn't her at her peak, but she didn't get much stronger than this afterwards, considering Servants could hold her off.

If Alaya was really alive there would be servants and no need for elementals. also no Gaia doesnt have infinite mana, though its a shit ton.

Mahou takes place in the same canon and timeline as Tsukihime, which has the Red Shadow that tries to kill people who are reaching for (or have reached) True Magic.

And Gaia is stated to have infinite mana in the original Tsukihime canon. It's only finite in Grand Order canon, which will share the same canon as the Tsukihime Remake.

A grail thats been corrupted. vs a grail that boasts more energy than fou and actually works

How is the Holy Grail weaker just because it was corrupted by Angra Mainyu?

Fixed the thing for you, also Demon Lords =/= Great Daemons so theres no correlation to kiara and arc (because true daemons are literally fallen angeles from God)

I never said Demon Lords = Great Daemons. Shows that you aren't paying attention.

Demon Lords are Fallen True Ancestors, which are significantly more powerful than normal True Ancestors.

True Ansecotrs arent above gods there above divine spirits who arent full fledged.

The other guy pounded you into the dirt proving otherwise.

All you're going off now is your fanfiction.

^ not even their true forms. so the scaling wouldn't include Gods

As the other guy mentioned a billion times, it directly said True Ancestors > Gods, not Divine Spirits.

Cope harder.

What Goetia Can Do to Real non head canon arc

Sure, let's go.

• Turn her into a demon god pillar

Based on what? Why didn't he do this to Servants?

• Send Her soul to purgatory (She has No feats of resisting such things)

That takes time IIRC, and he's getting blitzed before even processing a thought.

• Chill in his time temple and nuke her

He gets blitzed before going there.

• Destroy the planet making her fodder

He will not do that in-character, and I am not convinced he can destroy original canon Gaia, since Tsukihime states it has infinite mana. Though perhaps that won't translate to durability. He gets blitzed regardless.

• tell his demon gods to create "events" so she will drown in Nasuverse La La land hell.

This is so vague I don't even know what you're referring to, but he gets blitzed.

Again, Servants are consistently Supersonic in speed, which he could not blitz.

Also, I'm talking about normal Arcueid. Archetype-Earth is just Void Shiki but more. She would just will him out of existence and could end all of creation if she felt like it. No need to even bring up the amount of abilities she would have, which would basically be composite Nasuverse.

"Gah! That monster is too powerful not even Arc-chan can beat it."

- Nasu Talking About ORT

LMFAO. This is a PARODY QUOTE. It's about as canon as Carnival Phantasm. And it doesn't even specify if it's talking about Archetype Earth anyway.

@crimsonslayer85 said:

@the_metabee:

The fuck? Arcade just cucking GO with its grands n shit. anyways Arthur was already saying he was hunting down a potential beast. and who else would that be other than Manaka, which if it was true then she going to be more powerful.

A group of Servants can avoid being blitzed by Beasts and hold them off under some circumstances.

This will not be happening with a serious Void in her real body.

Ignore the FTL servants okay...

You mean the mountains upon mountains upon mountains of anti-feats that explain in detail how they are in the Supersonic speed range? Even in GO?

And if you want to do that, again, the same can be done with Tsukihime, but of course, to a higher extent.

Hell, if you want to pretend that Extra scales to everything else and everything is canon to each other, all True Ancestors > Gods and Amaterasu.

Amaterasu can move outside of the time axis. Guess who can fight the strongest True Ancestor, with some even being capable of beating or stomping her at full power (Red Arcueid)?

Pretty much every Tsukihime character. Who are all below Archetype-Earth.

Your talking as if not even iskandars chariot moves at lighting speeds.

It explicitly doesn't:

The quote below is ignoring how those bulls literally strike the earth like lighting and barely move at the top speeds.

Though the tree trunks were all very thick, for the sharp sickles flying at 400 kilometers an hour, it was as easy as sawing wood.-Fate/Zero Light Novel.

.

There normal ass planets

Yes, a layer of the planet containing a cosmos.

Yet anti planet nps can still destroy it because its a regular planet with textures?

The place where the evil dragon Fafnir finally arrived at the very end of the novels. The Phantasmal Races, having understood that the Age of the Gods was over, ceded the Earth’s surface to humans and moved to this place. The world where humans currently live (including the laws of physics) is like a fabric that thinly extends across the surface of the planet. Beneath that fabric exist the planet known as “Earth.” On the other hand, the Reverse Side of the World is the world as it was before humans lived there… that is, the fabric of the era where Phantasmal Races strode the land. In other words, the Earth is the bottommost layer of the planet, and it is covered by the “Reverse Side of the World”—the place where the laws of the “world” as it once was reigns, and covering that is the “Present World.”- Fate/Apocrypha Material.

Very much a normal planet.

DIdnt shadow literally say it was a window of the higher texture? why are you bringing debunked shit back?

Artemis is an anti planet np with better space destroying feats that got blocked by herc. kiara is making herc look like he was going to be orginally (unbeatble)

Original CCC Kiara is True Demon Level and vastly transcends even the Moon Cell. No.

📸

ill use that for later.

No it doesnt. its say she has universal influence with how even aliens can find her pretty. also nasu celestial bodies are the same as irl celestial bodies. only thing dif is there mechanics.

Mechanics being different means they aren't the same. And no, it goes way beyond just mechanics.

Also, nice fanfiction you made up regarding Kiara:

Bodhisattva is a Deva [deity] of universe’s scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System. - Fate/EXTRA material- Encyclopedia: Ten Thousand Color Stagnation [Codecast], p.203-204.

Of course, since Nasuverse planets clearly aren't normal and far larger in scale than real life planets, being universal is insanely higher than what it would be in real life.

Thank you for proving my point, you dont know shit and repeating what i say.

she wouldnt last with the likes of Rom who is casually ftl.

If you want to wank Servants, then Aoko's beam reached Flat Snark, a moon in space, in a second.

Which is around LS.

That Aoko was massively below her prime self and below pretty much the entire cast of Tsukihime.

You'd have an entire hierarchy of FTL people faster than the others in Tsukihime if you want to use this light speed crap. Fate gets blitzed either way.

If you want to say that i can bring up mashu dodging lasers. and shes not even a "proper" servant. let alone rom being able to react and dodge chaos light arrows which move faster than light, and cant be detected.

Her ass is not smart as school smart in the current day. shes not solving the "math" problem.

This is irrelevant to a fight and already addressed anyways. This really speaks to your level of intelligence more than anything.

As long as the problem isnt solved, the dudes invicible and has infinite energy. arc isnt doing shit.

Alright then, tell me the events of CCC (To every last detail) if youve played it. (Which i doubt)

That has to be one of the dumbest request I've ever heard. No one is going to mention every last detail of a game they played. That's the most extreme and arbitrary requirement I've ever heard. It would massively derail the thread. I could ask you to do the same with GO and you wouldn't be able to. This shows how desperate you are.

i mean i could give you a big ass sumary for go (excluding events) to prove that i played it. im just doubting you played CCC like you say you did.

Just because all you play is a phone game and nothing else doesn't mean there aren't others who have gone way beyond that and actually understand Nasuverse.

:/

Im not talking about there functions. im talking about what they have (which doesnt really differ to my knowledge. its a copy and past of the old mooncell with new primary functions)

That's also wrong, like the Extella Moon Cell having the Zero Dark, But the functions are extremely important and the most important thing really to show they aren't the same.

is there anything different about any of the Amatersaus?

Her being a CCC top-tier (though beaten out by Kiara, unrestricted Arcueid, and Buddha) massively puts her beyond her mainline self. This is consistent with Extra's power levels and even lore being massively different from other sets of timelines.

Her mainline self and her CCC self are the same. theres no diffrence in what gods are. and there surprislingly consinent unlike your "diffrent verse".

Youve talked about what there primary use they did in the story. not how the other is fundmentally diffrent and cant do what the other can do.

No, I mentioned how they are fundamentally different in their purpose and how they work.

Both contain there infinite timelines and view them, both have there RMs, they only have diffrent purposes unless you want to tell me that isnt true.

Free time like that only comes once a year.

It's not long at all.

You're ironically spending way more time trying to debate me than what it would take to read that.

its more interesting to me to debate than trying to read lore for a game im bored of playing on my switch (that shit is unplayable at least for me.

so this goes to prove the mooncell never actually had the power to warp the real world

How does the Moon Cell deleting Hakuno correlate with it not being able to effect the outside world, especially since it did it right after Hakuno DID change the outside world?

You do this a lot. You make claims that don't correlate with anything mentioned prior.

give me a scan of the mooncell effecting a gaia that isnt dead (mana deplted) or actively using its servants and counter measures. ill wait.

Ten Crowns is a concept, what does zeus have? anti concept attacks.

Ten Crowns can negate entire events from happening. Guess what Zeus using an anti-concept is? An event.

Ten crowns negating something after it cant work anymore?

Only something ridiculous like MEoDP should be able to destroy something like Ten Crowns, ignoring the fact a user of it could potentially get halted by Ten Crowns before they kill it.

Meodp cant even kill demon pillars for good. what makes you think its better than something that can delete concepts? is that bias?

Sounds like your talking about divine spirits more than

Sounds like you're just using your fanfiction over established lore.

"She is not all-powerful in a world where the information world has become more mainstream than the physical world.

Legends becomes truth in the information world, so the deifications of natural phenomena, the "Gods" (Divine spirits), often have powers greater than that of the original natural phenomena (which are Ta's)."

"Arcueid is normally an existence a Master would be unable to handle, but Gatou's misunderstandings and being placed in the Berserker class have given other Servants a chance to match her. True Ancestors are natural phenomenons, while gods are sentient beings with values able to be understood by humans. Gatou wishes to make her a real god through spreading his worship, but something that is real cannot become something that is false. Normally a spirit of the planet, the planet itself in a sense, her status has fallen from planet to god due to Gatou equating her to a god."

"So, Arcueid's ACTUAL existence is that of a planet; you're replacing this with a false existence of "God" there is only one person worshipping her so even if she was a "God" she'd be the weakest god because she doesn't have faith and is only worshipped by Gatou.

She's WEAKER, Because she's a false god.

Something real can't be false and vice versa."

feats? no assumption this time.

She's already stated to be "no longer" the strongest when downgraded to a God and restricted as a Servant due to conceptual space amping Gods. Meaning God Arcueid would already be the strongest person outside of conceptual space. An unrestricted True Ancestor Arcueid would be massively above God Arcueid, meaning she'd stomp the rest of Extra from a power perspective. We only need basic logical deduction to prove this.

You know shes barely even a god if she has only 1 person worshiping her as such right? no wonder why she got nerfed. only true gods (Like Zeus who doesnt rely on followers) can live without followers.

And she's massively below Archetype-Earth, who's above Void Shiki, but below ORT.

A fodder divine spirit got nerfed cause she barely has followers. conceptually isnt supposed to exist, and is insane.

Where did i say i havent played anything other than go? are you still talking about the other thread?

Yep, you admitted it.

im asking where.

he was activley fighting them and when they got to become a problem he de summoned them. (not like that shouldve been a problem if they actually had shown the other demon god pillars)

They cut his arm off and landed several hits on him. The fact he was struggling at all shows he's fodder.

(Still dogs arc in his temple while chilling cause hes immortal).

Hell an even weaker goetia stops wodime who gets his mana propties from stars in the universe and sends astroids that can destroy planets easily.

he no selled that shit easily while all the other servants got critcly injured (this also included a grand). the movie has fan service and doesnt make sense to the orginal one.

And hes coming back in his temple and destroying her timeline. she isnt galaxy level.

Goetia isn't galaxy level outside of one attack he refuses to use in-character because he's saving it for a bootleg wannabe use of the Fifth Magic. And even then, he'd get blitzed.

Hes not even stingy on using it. because he has MILLIONS to BILLIONS of them. even spamming them, his plan was to intercept what created the earth, which very well might be the root.

Tsukihime Arcueid isn't galaxy level, without Gaia amps of course, which has infinite mana in the original Tsukihime.

(and still dies to humans driving cars and drops in mana levels, yeah so called infinite)

But she can casually drop moons on people and her power casually can tank that type of stuff at 30% alone, which would paste Goetia and any Servant in a physical fight, ignoring the speed difference.

same goetia that can pull back up? that artifical moon drop isnt doing anything if it isnt real (as goetia might aswell negate it with its similarties with mage craft)

Extra Arcueid is above all of the multiversal CCC characters and has every ability the Moon Cell has recorded, since the core is just apart of her. Basically BB and Kiara on steroids.

multiversal CCC = Multiversal Goetia, even Vs battles wiki has him at multiversal lol, and considering what the moon cell has recorded on earth is "fodder" in your words. it isnt impressive.

Archetype-Earth is above someone whose origin is Akasha, is apart of Akasha, and has a vast access to Akasha and is capable of doing "just about anything" and can rewrite the laws of creation, events or destroy everything entirely, along with Akasha recording everything in a way similar to the Moon Cell, meaning Void alone would have almost all of the abilities in the Nasuverse, yet is still below Archetype, meaning her access to Akasha is even vaster.

lol no, every origin is apart of akasha its just because of shikis origin happened to be diffrent she was born with a stronger conncetion (doesnt matter cause she cant fight back and goetia can intercept her creation)

And if you want to pretend that Extra scales to Tsukihime and other series (it doesn't), all True Ancestors are above Gods, with top-tier ones like Amaterasu moving outside of the time axis. All Tsukihime characters that aren't normal human level can at the very least fight 30% Arcueid.

lol fan fiction am i right?

Literally no matter how you look at it, Fate gets pasted.

dont know which fate ur taliking bout.

have the others even appeared?

I just said no.

CCC Mooncell = Extella mooncell, nothing changed just the aliens.

You're basically saying "You're wrong because I said so." That isn't an argument.

has bb ever been in any other media out of CCC and Go?

We know the events of CCC happened in Extella.

why the fuck are you saying there diffrent then the fuck?

if there massivley diffrent why does it make them sound the same as the one in CCC.

The core story in terms of characters is likely similar in CCC's Extella to the original. That's why.

Also, Extella already implies in terms of mechanics and how things work, CCC in Extella is massively different, like Hakuno having 4 Servants.

Hakuno lowkey got taken captive lowkey in extella. Ritsuka has like all of them though. (this doesnt pretain to the argument)

The real world is solar system in sized as for the universe.

Already disproven. Nasuverse celestial bodies =/= real life ones.

Anti Planet already says otherwise. rhongmanyid not being an anti planet also says otherwise (as it would be there cosmos and the layer) unless you say Go =/= rest of the nasuverse.

nope, just have to remind you that the mooncells digital space doesnt make sense and shouldnt be treated more real than Kamas conceptual universe.

Concession accepted.

what concession? im saying its digital space is more or less the same as conceptual space.

let me ask again, where did i say that?

Here?

Screenshot?

Yeah nada, nothing. all i know is GO which basically shakes it head at the old nasuverse with newer feats/statements and characters.

Thank you for throwing away the akasha arc shit. we can now have an actual debate.

I didn't. I was just saying she stomps even without that.

(She really doesnt she cant do anything to goetia while the other can actually kill her)

And no, we aren't having an actual debate. There are two people here arguing the facts and one guy spouting his fanfiction at us.

otherway around buddy, already debunked the god shit, the sefar and white titan shit.

Because you keep on bringing movie fan service and saying goetia got bodied when that wasnt even the case (after they all jumped him he dispatched them one by one, and when they tried to help ritsuka more he desummoned them)

His arm got cut off by Nero. He struggled and traded multiple blows with them evenly. Some of his attacks were countered and blocked. He then de-summoned them.

yeah lets ignore him stopping anti planet attacks and focus on fan service. its like me saying karna + gawain = BB's demise without taking into account context.

He was either getting overwhelmed slowly at worst, or thought it was too much trouble to deal with even if he could win and de-summoned them at best. Regardless, he still in just barely above Servant-tier physically, and arguably not even above.

here do you get this hydrogen bomb shit? magicial energy or..? but that doesnt change the fact that her volume is infinte (and is already effecting the real world better than the mooncell in CCC who only observes)

This wasn't her at her peak, but she didn't get much stronger than this afterwards, considering Servants could hold her off.

thanks, youve proven all of tiamats energy =/= Hydrogen bomb. and also ignored the fact she nerfed herself, and then got nerfed to hell. she wasnt even in her true body.

If Alaya was really alive there would be servants and no need for elementals. also no Gaia doesnt have infinite mana, though its a shit ton.

Mahou takes place in the same canon and timeline as Tsukihime, which has the Red Shadow that tries to kill people who are reaching for (or have reached) True Magic.

Is that even a servant? or the equilvant to a shadow servant.

And Gaia is stated to have infinite mana in the original Tsukihime canon. It's only finite in Grand Order canon, which will share the same canon as the Tsukihime Remake.

if it truly had infinite mana it wouldnt die from mankind. exhoasting it. hell there wasnt any belief shit back then so earths mana was already becoming low for no reason (and also dying for no reason), and not only did it not have pruning priviliages it couldnt make servants or Primodial Gods like EA.

A grail thats been corrupted. vs a grail that boasts more energy than fou and actually works

How is the Holy Grail weaker just because it was corrupted by Angra Mainyu?

You literally cant use its wish without something bad happening, or it straight up does the opposite and spits out grail mud.

Fixed the thing for you, also Demon Lords =/= Great Daemons so theres no correlation to kiara and arc (because true daemons are literally fallen angeles from God)

I never said Demon Lords = Great Daemons. Shows that you aren't paying attention.

whats this?

Clearly your saying what you want because Kiara is a True Daemon, not true demon level. the former being stronger than the other from just virtue of feats and actual having someone to vouch for them. CCC kiara. and what do you know? Shes Fodder to God because True Daemon are just fallen angeles directly from God.

Demon Lords are Fallen True Ancestors, which are significantly more powerful than normal True Ancestors.

True Ansecotrs arent above gods there above divine spirits who arent full fledged.

The other guy pounded you into the dirt proving otherwise.

I dont see him posting after the other post of actually explaining why divine spirits =/= gods. your delusional.

All you're going off now is your fanfiction.

^ not even their true forms. so the scaling wouldn't include Gods

As the other guy mentioned a billion times, it directly said True Ancestors > Gods, not Divine Spirits.

Cope harder.

Arc got nerfed because she became a non existent phantasy, true ansecotors are from the world and arent built from beliefs. so when arc went from real to unreal she became a shit ton weaker. not only that shes a Divine spirit with only one follower. theres no True Ancestors > Gods, i already debunked the other guy. cope harder

What Goetia Can Do to Real non head canon arc

Sure, let's go.

• Turn her into a demon god pillar

Based on what? Why didn't he do this to Servants?

Because they either have resistances (which arc doesnt have) and he only did it before the incernation. it works by thinking about him or uttering his name. (it was only slower because goetia wanted to stretch out the curse to lev)

• Send Her soul to purgatory (She has No feats of resisting such things)

That takes time IIRC, and he's getting blitzed before even processing a thought.

Its instant how do you not know that? its either from him looking at you or you looking into his eyes, and again arc cant put him down while he can incernate her and her planet and reduce it to that of notes (Where gaia is dead, and as we know Gaia = Archetype sorta)

• Chill in his time temple and nuke her

He gets blitzed before going there.

you know he has like 3 immortalities that arc has no way with dealing with an independent manifistation to automatically go there whenever he wants?

• Destroy the planet making her fodder

He will not do that in-character, and I am not convinced he can destroy original canon Gaia, since Tsukihime states it has infinite mana. Though perhaps that won't translate to durability. He gets blitzed regardless.

he incernated the planet for shits and giggles, then did it every second throughout 3,000 years he would do it in character. Also theres no "orginal canon Gaia being stronger than new gaia" back then even arc says humans would bring her fall (death)

• tell his demon gods to create "events" so she will drown in Nasuverse La La land hell.

This is so vague I don't even know what you're referring to, but he gets blitzed.

Again, Servants are consistently Supersonic in speed, which he could not blitz.

you havent watched the movie have you?

Also, I'm talking about normal Arcueid. Archetype-Earth is just Void Shiki but more. She would just will him out of existence and could end all of creation if she felt like it. No need to even bring up the amount of abilities she would have, which would basically be composite Nasuverse.

so your so called all of the creation ender is not more powerful than ultraman,ORT, or humanity (because they can randomly kill her by existing for too long)

"Gah! That monster is too powerful not even Arc-chan can beat it."

- Nasu Talking About ORT

LMFAO. This is a PARODY QUOTE. It's about as canon as Carnival Phantasm. And it doesn't even specify if it's talking about Archetype Earth anyway.

it isnt a paradoy quote. its literally explaining who the strongest person was and talking about how he took insperation from one of his workers, and it automatically talks about arc at her strongest like he talked about her in the ranked.

In RPG terms, the hidden boss that is stronger than the last boss. What’s wrong with this game? It’s not even balanced! No, it’s actually your fault for picking the fight.

While ORT can never really learn Earth’s culture, it seems that it has the ability to mimic the organisms that it preys upon to a certain extent.

(Since it’s only mimicry, even if he said something that sounded human, he’s just repeating someone else. If you’re looking for something romantic there, go ahead, but…)

By the way, in ORT’s opinion, the Earth life form with the strongest flavor to it was the former 5th Dead Apostle Ancestor.

To be kind of off topic, just by ORT moving, the trees around it crystallize, and form a valley of crystal… was the visual image we had at the start, but Mr. PFALZ’s idea of “a spiderweb-like Crystal Valley” was so excellent, we went with that instead.

"Also off topic, but many of the designs we requested from Mr. PFALZ that he has humorously compiled appear in this book. W-We’re no match! It truly is an unidentified flying object. It truly is the strongest attack-type life form. It truly brings excellent design to another level. I mean, not even Arc would win against this thing! S-Someone go find Ultraman!"

Arcs Humanity >>>>> Arc (Who is basically gaia)

Hold up ima fix something here.

A weaker Goetia in Roman's body stopped an attack utilizing the mana of stars in the universe (no flowery language and visually shows him using it).

Anti planet nps should just kill Arc in her strongest form, Arc herself is more or less gaia and talks about how humanity will bring her demise (possibly Note end like how GO, Tsuki and other media dealing with the eventual promised time talk).

So getting arcs "undieable no concept of death headass out of there" she cant deal with goetia immortality or goetia stealing her spot. and if you say Arc has connection to the root then your also saying Goetia going back in time and becoming/shaping the planet like primordial gods would give him the same status.

for an easier win, he can make arc into one of his minions.

Arcueid is LITERALLY the Planet. Not Alaya, she's Gaia she's one half of what makes up the "World"

Goetia is stated to have MORE Energy than the Earth this means he has MORE Energy than Gaia AND Alaya.

There's a reason why Grands weren't able to be summoned to fight Goetia.

Because he literally incinerated humanity aside from Chaldea, which ALREADY cripples Alaya MASSIVELY.

Gaia got crippled by the fact the man set the planet ablaze with his stare.

On the subject of Archetype Earth not having a concept of death?

That's hilarious and wrong. Shiki can't comprehend her death because Shiki isn't a celestial object and doesn't kill stuff by brute forcing it.

"The planet, unable to use a mirror to reflect itself, is unable to set its own standards, so only another celestial body is able to understand the death of a celestial body."

So by this; only another planet and or star (Because that's what celestial bodies can be)

Can understand the death of other celestial bodies.

SHE HERSELF CONFIRMS SHE CAN DIE.

Again I can't post Japanese characters on Comicvine but the translation says this below.

(Arc saying that she has no choice but to erradicate (at least) mankind from her body (the planet), so her eventual demise doesn't come faster.

^ IT DOESN'T GET MUCH CLEARER THAN THIS.

Archetype Earth confirming she can outright die. And yes it's Archetype Earth and NOT ditzy Arcueid saying this, Arcueid never talks about annihilating humanity. Archetype Earth is the one that talks of this subject.

(Arc says that her, the planet, cannot be seized by man. She also says that mankind needs to grow and surpass the lid of the skies)

"PLANET"

Goetia is outright stated to have MORE Energy than the Planet.

I can't believe people seriously don't understand what Goetia's goal was.

He was LITERALLY AIMING TO USURP AKASHA.

"God" his goal was to replace God as the only Almighty existence. It literally says this in his profile.

"In spite of asserting that humans had no value, the demons could not exist without being employed by humans. The disgrace of having to remain under humans - the sole and greatest “waste of resources” in this universe - despite being life forms of a higher dimension. Goetia could not accept such contradictions and unfaithfulness, and set out on a quest of self-reform. Reset the objective of serving humans. Absolute proof that he is the highest existence in this planet. Reaching the apex that not even Solomon could attain. Goetia’s objective is to reach the apex; to become the sole existence in this planet. In other words, the beginning of the great venture of becoming God"

^ He was literally going to usurp Akasha I'll say it again.

If we take The Root being "God" As literal as it's stated in KnK he was going to usurp the Root.

"Being the most supreme of beings on the planet, he possesses an almightiness that causes the entire logic of the universe to obey him and a sense of intimidation that seems to say that he hates all of mankind. Described as an omnipotent being that even King Solomon could not reach"

"By destroying the Foundations of Humanity and reducing the strength of Human History to zero, Goetia was able to use this Noble Phantasm to harvest an outrageous amount of Magical Energy. Surprisingly, the amount of heat obtained upon burning the Earth doesn’t amount to much. But it’s different with the planet’s inhabitants."

For Ars Almadel Salomonis he literally tested on just burning the earth itself apparently and realized he didn't get much energy from it.

So he hurt Arcueid for shits and giggles basically in preliminary tests.

"When Goetia charges it and focuses its energy into an attack, the beam is described as "a torrent of heat sufficient to penetrate through the planet."

He can literally pierce through the planet with just one light band.

"A total rewrite of history would require more energy than exists on Earth, a limitation which Goetia overcomes by the Incineration of Humanity."

He's yet again stated to be sitting on more energy than anything that exists on earth making him emphatically above Earth.

Ergo Arcueid has NO SUCH backup from the planet nor is she able to bring her to his level or nerf him.

Reason being is because that has to do with "PHYSICAL" stats.

The reason Goetia is so dangerous isn't his physical stats it's the fact he's literally firing unlimited possibilities of human history at you in the form of a giant ass beam of death.

But shit, let's not even talk about a direct confrontation. We can talk about what he can do to massively screw Arc over and depower her.

> using Ars Almadel Salomonis speed up the process in which the earth dies all that much faster.

> Create Singularities to cripple Gaia.

> Use Ars Almadel Salomonis to wipe out all of nature thus really crippling Gaia.

Ignoring the outright depowering.

Arcueid/ Archetype Earth has:

> No way to deal with independent Manifestation

> No way to time travel yet Goetia can do so freely

> No way to even get to Ars Paulina as she's stuck on earth and hasn't shown the ability to traverse imaginary number sea to even reach Ars Paulina.

> Can't permanently deal with all the 72 Demon god pillars who indefinitely keep spawning for aslong as Goetia's energy holds up

Did I mention that Ars Paulina is Anti-World? Which means the second she steps foot in his domain she's cut off from the connection to Gaia and subject to not getting any energy.

> Not like this matters as it literally says Goetia's energy is above the planet; so the planet's best will not be enough.

Realistically this fight goes like this.

Archetype gets stuck fighting all 72 Demon pillars; Goetia notices her and immediately realizes WHAT she is with his Ex-Rank clairvoyance.

Man even knew the Alien-god would eventually show up and she was his real reason for starting the human incineration order.

The one thing he couldn't see was Solomon.

Arcueid "Not" having a concept of death will save her about as much as not having one did for an actual Type who are >> Her who

While Unable to be judged by the common sense of the planet, and lack the very concept of "death." The only conceptual weapons like Black Barrel and overwhelming power like Slash Emperor showing the ability to damage them.

In particular?

Ado kills Type Saturn with Slash Emperor.

What is Slash Emperor you say?

Well you see; it's Ado's knight arm that attaches to the ground of the planet and drains the planet to form a massive sword that pulls an Ea and reveals the "Truth" of the world before it was the land of steel.

What have we learned from this?

Well; for starters who has more energy than the planet again?

Oh-

That's right, Goetia, Goetia does.

What's Slash Emperor's description?

While at rest, it is in a seed like state growing out of his right palm. He awakens it by driving it into the ground, and it begins to grow like a plant at the speed of his own thoughts. It makes use of large quantities of Grain to manifest itself, so it needs an enormous energy source from which to convert it.

Slash Emperor, as it grows larger, chips away at the very earth for its energy. Its method of eroding the earth can be compared to the ways of the old world, which makes Slash Emperor something that can be called the "embodiment of human nature." It is something that "destroys the world in order to protect humans." When it is large enough in its battle state, it seems to give off a blue "aura-like" part, but it is not the Grain released by the blade. It is actually Slash Emperor splitting apart the Blood Sky, the blood of Type Pluto covering the planet, of the Land of Steel and displaying its true state. This act is the "dignity of Slash Emperor." The sword is able to cleave the Aristoteles in a single slash

So, Slash Emperor uses the Earth's energy to become a sword that can cleave Types in two.

Following?

Slash Emperor can be said to be the "Embodiment of human nature"

Hmmm interesting; but wait what is Ars Almadel Salomonis again?

"The different Bands of Light scattered in the different singularities unify all of that. They carry the vestiges of the people of each era, the consolidation of everything, the very crystallization of human history. The bands of light are the infinite possibilities of human history."

Oh, that's right. Something FAAAR Stronger than Slash Emperor; as the bands of light are literal infinite possibilities of human history being blasted at you.

Not the "Embodiment"

Coincidentally it also says

"The band of light is made up of all the Magical Energy gathered from Earth and the entire era where it manifests"

And my favorite part is where Ars Almadel Salomonis gets a very intriguing sentence comparison that was previously only given to the known strongest Type to exist.

"The Time of Birth Has Come, He Is The One Who Master Everything"

Ars Almadel Salomonis.

King Solomon's Third Noble Phantasm. The "|" of original sin.

At a first glance it looks like a ring of light that encircles the Earth, but in reality it is an aggregation of some hundred millions lines of light.

Each one of these lines carry extreme damage values comparable to Excalibur, an A Rank Noble Phantasm.

Unfortunately, there is nothing on the surface of the Earth that surpasses the heat value of this Noble Phantasm.

And this is said about ORT

Its outer skin is harder, more flexible, more temperature resistant, and sharper than any substance on Earth.

Yet if we take the statement of Ars Almadel Salomonis literally then ORT falls amongst the category of

"Unfortunately, there is nothing on the surface of the Earth that surpasses the heat value of this Noble Phantasm."

Which means with current statements even ORT would get incinerated by AAS.

On the subject of it not being able to die?

Same shit applies;

'It does not have Earth's concept of death, making it immune to abilities such as attacks from a user of the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, so it must be destroyed physically."

Which we confirmed the supposed weaker Type Saturn bit the dust to Slash Emperor which is infinity inferior to mister has more energy than the planet itself Goetia.

Archetype Earth isn't even an actual Type. The Earth couldn't create one so it had to form a union with Crimson moon who coincidentally ALSO got his ass physically blasted to bits by Zelretch using an inferior technique similar in nature to Ars Almadel Salomonis.

So IF Goetia fires Ars Almadel Salomonis at Arcueid and has no restraints such as needing to leap 4.6 billion years to the past?

Archetype Earth flatout gets obliterated.