High Tier Tournament R2: Thenamelessone vs Mass

Mu Siyun was an unemployed university graduate, wasting away towards the end of the 22nd century. However, he was the smartest graduate to major in Political History. After accidentally sending an application to Beiyang Fleet (also referred to as Red Scale), he was accepted and somehow, immediately became the new Fleet Admiral. Using his vast knowledge of politics and history, Mu seeks to expose and crush the corruption that has overtaken humanity and set order in the universe with an iron fist. All with the help of his trusty space harem of 3,000 cybernetic warriors called the Iron Ladies.

Through of series of fate defying events, Mu Siyun becomes host to the Dragon Empress of the Weaver Goddess Race and becomes the universe's first Soul Tier Angel. This propels him to a higher dimensional plane.

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Aside from being vastly superior to the Heaven Tier Angels, a Soul Tier also has the unique ability to control other bodies with their soul. These other bodies are called Soul Puppets and have consciousness completely erased so they can controlled by Mu's soul. So while they are physically different bodies, they are in fact one soul, Mu's. Mu is currently using dozens puppets across the universe but what's important to know is that Mu has access to 100% of each puppet's (or concubine as the Dragon Empress like to refer to them as) abilities:

For the purposes of this debate, I will be using Mu Siyun's main body (yes I know it doesn't look as cool as his other forms).

For reference, Heaven Tiers are extremely powerful in their own right. The Immortal Godmother, a Heaven Tier Angel, can defeat a beast that exerted a force almost as heavy as a white dwarf star, so that's the minimum scale you'll see here.

Within this tournament, Mu Siyun is rated as a 10, meaning he stands at the pinnacle of the tournament's "Star Level" limit. In this section, I intend to showcase just how powerful a true Star Level character can be.

I'll keep it simple and just list out a couple Star Level feats and some common scaling through the series:

• Blasts a hole through a star
• Blocks out a star from being seen from any angle (completely covering a star)
• Is directly linked to the Cloud Immortal Planet
  • Cloud Immortal Planet contains the power of the star and is used to replace the Sun as the power source for our solar system.
• Destroys Dragon Slayer Main Ships in a single attack. For reference, the Dragon Slayer Main Ships can withstand a star-busting attack:

Mu is confronted by the Dragon Slayer Main Ship firing off its Star Destroying Main Cannon:

• • 

    The two Dragon Slayer Main Ships launch hundreds of Annihilation Bombs at the Yin and Yang Embodiments of Mu. The duo start destroying the bombs, using the Diamond Sarira to destroy the Annihilation Bombs with Anti-Matter as they go. The Diamond Sarira allows the Embodiments to use their spatial portals to pass the Divine Weapon back and forth between them, wiping out all of the Annihilation Bombs. The main ship finishes charging its Main Cannon and blasts Mu with a star buster. The Embodiments use the Samsara Diamond Print to block the blast and then teleport it back at the Dragon Slayer Main Ships with the Space Transfer power, destroying one of the ships.When the dust clears, one of the Dragon Slayer Main Ships is still completely unharmed, its barrier offsetting the powerful star busting attack. The Qin Family Head orders the remaining ship to prepare another blast. Mu calculates it will take 60 seconds to charge and sets out to break the ships barrier within that time frame. The Yin and Yang embodiments merge with the Diamond Sarira and becomes the Real God's Soul Soldier Nalaku-Vara. Mu fires a mouth blast the ship, destroying the ship's first heavy barrier (dealing more damage than the Dragon Slayer's Main Cannon, a star busting blast). The ship's transfers all energy for charging the Main Cannons back into the ships barrier. Mu throws two axes at the ship, breaking the second, third, forth and fifth barriers with an attack more powerful then a large scale meteor shower. Mu fires one more mouth blast and breaks through the ship's barrier, heavily damaging it. Mu detects something is wrong and quickly pushes the massive ship away from the Silver Triangle Planet right before it explodes with a Giant Annihilation Black Hole. Mu is able to dodge most of the explosion, losing only part of the Yin embodiment's legs which quickly start to regenerate.In his strongest form, he was able to shatter the Dragon Slayer Alliance's Main Ship's multi-layer barrier with 2 beam attacks and 2 axe attacks. That same barrier completely blocked a star busting beam just minutes before so Mu has more power than a star destroying attack.

o further cement this, I introduce additional evidence on Mu's power claim. Courtesy of Higherpower's Mu Siyun Respect Thread:

Now let's establish a power scale. This will be used as a reference point for all of Mu's Soul Soldiers. Early on Mu was taught a technique by a Shura Elder which allowed the inventor the ability to shoot down Suns and swallow stars.

This was proven to not be a hyperbole either, as even a member of the Holy Weaver Race would shoot down Suns for fun, destroying nine and leaving up just one for casual sunbathing.

Notice the arrow in that image. It's referred to as the "Sun-Shooting Arrow" which is made out of Dragon Queen's spine and currently used by Dragon Queen, one of Mu's weakest forms. She reproduced several of them.

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And as I showed earlier, Mu has access to 100% of his form's power.

In short, Mu is a causal star buster.

There's plenty more feats but I think you get the idea.

Now, Star Level isn't just about having the attack power to destroy a Star. Its also about having the durability to withstand Star Level attacks. Mu has such durability.

• Blocks having a collapsed star black hole thrown at him

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• Survives dozens of attacks from the Ditu Emperor including a head shot from inside his own skull.
  • The Ditu Emperor can crush a black hole.
• Trades blows with the Saint who's able to tank Mu's star busting physical strikes

I'll try to keep this as straight forward as I can. Mu is extremely fast. To start the baseline, all laser weaponry in the Iron Ladies series uses light or electricity so all beam attacks are in fact light speed, which isn't very impressive by this tournament's standards.

Mu pushes one of the Dragon Slayer Main Ships away from the Silver Triangle planet so fast that it is completely unaffected by a Giant Black hole.

A big or Giant black hole is referred to as a Supermassive Hole. This isn't something that Mu can tank of course as they have the mass of billions of Suns and he was in fact almost destroyed by it. Fortunately he was not only fast enough to push the ship out away but also to escape the black hole's range before his body was completely destroyed.

"Giant Black Hole" could have a gravitational range or Schwarzschild radius of 19 AU which is the orbital range of the planet Uranus (say that without laughing).

Mu pushing the ship out of that range in what is undoubtedly mere moments, is easily in the MFTL range.

More support of Mu speed comes from him chasing the Qin Family Main Ship across hundreds to of Light-Years. Full disclosure this was done via teleportation but in order to pull off such a feat, Mu had to track, react and actively teleport each time the Qin Family Main Ship teleported or he would have lost them. When the ship is jumping distances of hundreds to thousands of light-years away, Mu keeping up with and pursuing said ship is a testament to his immense reaction speed.

And finally we have Mu fighting with the Ditu Emperor. At the start of the fight, they are battling above the Insect Queen planet (the orange planet in the first scan). In a single attack, Mu blasts the Ditu Emperor all the way across the Insect Queen Star Territory to another star on the outskirts of the system.

With the average distance between stars being around 5 light years, crossing such a distance in an instant is a huge speed feat.

After defeating the Ditu Emperor, Mu travels from the Insect Queen Star Territory to meet the scientist group at their base in the Silver Triangle in the Hungry Ghost System in a single panel, crossing entire solar systems.

Between these two feats, its fairly obvious that Mu's combat, reaction and travel speed are all at the MFTL limit.

As if a guy what can throw out Star Level strikes and withstand Star Level blows moving at MFTL speeds isn't bad enough, he also comes packed full with a bunch of nasty abilities to make your day go from day to worse.

Mu's abilities are a little unique compared to your standard magic or power based ability. Angels in the Iron Ladies universe are woman (or men in Mu's case) who have undergone a procedure developed by the Weaver Race to build weapons directly into their bodies. Weapon blueprints can then be downloaded directly into their minds and 3-D printed instantly on the battlefield. The limitation to this ability is that the Angel needs to have enough energy and material stored within their bodies or subspace.

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Mu's limit far exceeds anything and everything else seen in the series. As I already pointed out, Mu is directly connected to the Cloud Immortal Planet giving him ample power for this fight. As for material, well that's even better. Here we see Mu materializing dozens of Beiyang's Main Cannons and barraging the Ditu Emperor with hundreds of White Dwarf Bombs.

No, white dwarf bombs aren't actual stars. They are moons which are compressed to such a huge degree that they actual become as dense as the material found within white dwarf stars. A barrage of these white dwarf bombs can vaporize even the Dragon Slayer Main Ship with its star level durability.

Even worse, these white dwarf bombs are so dense that they collapse the space around them so not only does Mu's target have to deal with the immense destructive power of these bombs physically but also the space destruction.

Finally, becomes the bombs are so damn heavy, they actually spawn a legit black hole.

They are a pretty lethal triple whammy and that's only one of Mu's attacks.

Of course, someone on Mu's standing doesn't need to rely on supermass to create a black hole. He can do it on his own by materializing two cannons around his target and crushing them with the black hole.

In fact, a single black hole is the minimum you can expect out of Mu. Mu can collapse the space directly on top of his targets and cause over a dozen black holes to appear wherever he wants. Now I know what you might be thinking. "But Mass, Mu has to use the Shura Demon of Melody Battle Form to use the Shura Demon Chant" (black hole spam). If this were one of Mu's Soul Soldiers, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but this is Mu's Main Body here. His Main Body doesn't require a Battle Form to use 100% of the abilities of his Soul Soldier as seen when he materialized dozens of Beiyang's Main Cannon which are the Battle Form of Xiao, Mu's third Soul Soldier. Using his main body, allows Mu to use any of his soul soldier's abilities without switching to their Battle Forms. Can someone say "Black Hole Barrage?"

One of Mu's earliest Soul Soldier's possessed the power to literally Crush Space.

Mu Space Crush isn't a small deal either. He could easily crush half a cities worth of area, a city that is over 500 km in diameter btw

By simply pointing his finger, Mu can crush the space of an area the size of half a city. The city being referenced here is the Imperial City and has a diameter of a city with a diameter of at least 500 km btw.

Mu can also materialize extensions of himself over vast distances via portals to deliver devastating physical attacks.

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To add onto that, Mu can even interact with the ethereal void of nothingness so there really is nothing outside his grasp.

Mu can also materialize pure darkness strong enough to break the Saint's attacks, the same attacks that are strong enough to harm Mu's star level durability.

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This isn't a black hole or dark matter, its pure darkness.

Aside from his materialization, Mu can also unleash devastating sonic resonance blasts that cover planetary areas and crush multiple planets. This is actually Mu's usual opening move for fodder opponents.

Note - in the scan above, Mu's opponent assumes this is Mu's strongest attack but as you've seen above, its not even close.

Another piece of standard equipment that Mu always keeps on his person is the Myriad Immortal Imperial Mace Demon Suppressing Immortal King Array. Its a mouthful to say but the Array is well worth it. When activated, the array breaks down everything around it at the molecular level.

Mind controls the Cloud Immortal Planet with only 5% of his intelligence (that's why it took his soul soldier so long to do it, because she's a moron).

To round this section out I'll go over Xiao's telepathy and soul manipulation, which is combined into one. He broke into Cloud Immortal soul's mental defenses, invaded his soul and mind.

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After 30 minutes he was able to fully manipulate it and control it.

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And as a reminder, this is a mind and soul manipulation feat as the Cloud Immortal Planet is using both. The Cloud Immortal Planet contains the power of the star and is used to replace the Sun as the power source for our solar system. So Mu blocked the mental attack of a Star Level living planet and then mind wrecked and controlled that same living planet with only 5% of my brain power. Just imagine how terrible his mental prowess becomes when he uses 100% of brain power.

There are numerous other Mind Control and Soul Stealing feats as well but I don't think those will be necessary yet. Just leaving my options open should they be needed.

And let's not forget our the radiation Mu gives off. When not controlled, a single touch is lethal. Those who've been touched crumble away to nothing.

In the same vein that Mu is packing some seriously haxed firepower, his defensive abilities are also just as imposing.

As a relatively unknown character, those who do know Mu Siyun usually start topics about him with how unkillable he is. Granted he isn't absolutely unkillable but he's pretty damn tough to put down. You've already seen his tournament limit durability, now check out some of his other defenses.

• Completely destroyed down to the Quantum Level and comes back even stronger
• A soul solder's base form is destroyed down to the atomic level but yet again comes back even stronger
• Is completely annihilated by anti-matter and guess what? He comes back even stronger
• Gets impaled by a nothingness (void) attack and barraged with dozens of nothingness attacks from the Ditu Emperor that transcends time and space with only minor injuries
• Mental attacks are ineffective against the Soul Level Angel (Mu). This is coming from the Ditu Emperor, someone who controls multiple planets across the galaxy.
• Has a stronger soul then the Dragon Empress who gave him all his powers.
• Blocks the mental/soul attack of the Cloud Immortal Planet (see section above for scans)
• Gets blasted with a heatwave hot enough to carbonize Dead Gold
  • Dead Gold has a melting point of 100,000,000 degree C

He can also use his connection to the Cloud Immortal Planet to create a barrier as big as 830 Earths.

Any powerful attack that you send his way can be redirected back at you via his Space Transfer Ability. Here it transfers the star level attack of the Dragon Slayer Main Ships main cannon back at it.

And speaking of space skills, I hope you weren't planning on using any. Mu has the ability to completely lock down space over a large planetary range, preventing all forms of teleportation, portals and space skills.

In short, Mu is really really really hard to hurt, let alone kill.

As you've come to realize, a Space Lock is the ultimate Nope to all kinds of Space Manipulation but their exists a power beyond that, the Diamond Sarira aka Vajra Sarira. This isn't a non-standard item either as Mu always has the Vajra Sarira in his possession. With it, Mu can teleport, use portals and spatial destroy black holes while under the space lock of the Dragon Slayer's Main Ship, which I'll remind you can lock down a God General aka the version of Mu that destroyed said Dragon Slayer Main Slayer, i.e., star level.

Better yet, the Vajra Sarira is the ultimate tool of the Divine Metal Race, a race which holds the best space manipulation powers in the series. So great is the Divine Metal Race's space manipulation that Immortal Godmother with a Battle Form made of Divine Metal can destroy hyperspace. A trait the Vajra Sarira also possesses and even exceeds. The monster the Immortal Godmother destroyed hyperspace to kill was called a Xiehu Beast. The one she fought was still immature but it had the power to crush space and exerted a force that was almost as heavy as a white dwarf star.

Mu, defeated a fully mature and mutated Xehiu Beast. Don't forget that these things can crush space and exert the force of a white dwarf star around them too. Not only that, the Vajra Sarira actually overpowered the Xehiu Beast AND a full Divine God's space seal, completely undoing its space collapse.

And now something I've been waiting a very long time to showcase. Sadly I didn't get a chance to show this off during Mu's last match but hopefully Dante and company can make up for it. Introducing Death Qi, a phenomenon caused by the collection of dead spirits. It is first introduced when the Heaven Tier Dingyuan dies and reincarnates as a God-Slaying Heaven Tier through the use of Death Qi. Dingyuan is essential omnipresent within the area of effected by her Death Qi. Seeing as Death Qi is such a powerful ability, of course Mu copied how to use it.

What makes Death Qi truly amazing is how insanely versatile it is. It can be used to complete reconstruct the body from a single strand of hair. Dingyuan is killed several times by a barrage of Dragon Slayer Main Ship Cannons and yet through Death Qi, her body is never truly destroyed and she keeps coming back to life. This kind of power is an utter cheat in this tournament as Death Qi will keep the body from being destroyed and constantly reconstruct it faster than it can be damaged, making destroying Mu's physical body almost impossible.

Better yet, in combination with the Vajra Sarira, its allowed for the instantaneous materialization of an endless combination of attacks. Dingyuan used it to spawn dozens of city sized pillars to utterly destroy a Divine God and Cosmic Beast (both star level entities).

But by far the most important aspect of Death Qi is the manifest it creates. When released, it takes on the a sinister constellation of skulls that pars down on the target. This is where its revealed that Death Qi was the original power of the First Generation God-Slaying Heaven Tier Ninth Heaven Nuba. As such, Nuba's powerful aura was also inherited and here's the best part. Nuba's aura is strong, insanely strong. So strong in fact that her Deathly Aura can even extinguish a star!

That's right folks, through Death Qi, Mu has access Death Qi's insane reconstruction, materialization and a powerful aura capable to extinguishing a star. I'd like to see how long even those at the tournament's pinnacle can last against such power.

frankly, I don't need to mention as much as you did to match your power level and attack potency, the above is a being called Saviour, the culmination of countless demonic entities into one single existence, the Saviour after losing Nero which would severely affect its powers, is capable enough to construct recreations of the conventional world, the said existence was doing it very easily, seconds at most if you want to put it in numbers.

This is largely impressive due to the consistent existence of suns in some of these realms.

And yes, when I say consistent I do mean consistent, so we've one sun and then the existence of a planet and then the existence of a moon.

as I've displayed already, the construction of the realms is near-instant and effortless, but for sure measure, I will post all the instances where the construction of the realms is shown to be near-instant.

[1]

[2]

[3]

as explained, Demonic energy is inherently tied to power and thus it's basically Saviour's demonic energy taking dimensional shapes and constructing at least three separate celestial bodies, A Star, a Moon and an Earth all done nearly instantly as we can see on-panel. another thing, Saviour's destructive capabilities directly are implied to be similar to his creation capabilities, considering Saviour was considered to be capable of destroying and recreating the world in the same sentence, this goes in consistent with Saviour with less demonic energy than 100% due to the crystals breaking and Nero splitting, the remaining demonic energy can still easily construct dimensions with sun-moon-earth trio.

"The purpose of the Order was to build an ideal homeland...only those who are chosen by God...the paradise that is eligible to live...in order to change the now decaying world...we have to do this...in order to create a new world, we had to set off huge chaos and destroy the world...

Deadly Fortune

...

The sound came from afar, although it was a lot weaker, but Dante smiled and heard the contents of it. It was too funny to call out the demons and then destroy them to be heroes. However, the high voice of the Pope continues:

"Come on, come and pray! Give a hymn! When the world is not destroyed!"

Dante felt that they were really desperate, and appreciative applause. Dante has witnessed many wicked people who are self-proclaimed heroes.

Deadly Fortune

And Dante was capable of battling the Saviour for an extended amount of time and besting it, thus besting beings with the casual energy to perform Star-level feats, if you need I can post the calculated results for the Saviour's power, they all come at Star-level.

thus in a contest of clashing energy attacks, Joie would not come even close to overpowering Dante, or even Saviour for that matter.

Nightmare, a being with no will, created by the earlier demon kings is the embodiment of ruin and destruction, Nightmare was such a powerful monster that it was sealed away by Mundus because he knew that Nightmare could lay waste to all of Demon World, which was more or less Mundus's kingdom, the nature of the destruction was not stated in the manga but it was stated in another source which quite literally states that the Demon World would perish if Nightmare is to be released and then we've another source detailing the actual method of destruction, the method being the literal lifting and slamming of the demon world and thus destroying it.

now, with all that out of the way, we need to discuss the nature of the demon realm it's size and dimensions have to be conversed upon for us to reach a good judgement on what level this narrative puts the nightmare's physical strength on, first of all we will look at the Mirror world which is a replica of the human world and as we can see, it contains a sun, we don't know the area the terms of "demon world," and "human world" cover and bind but that is certainly a measure, the replica of human realm containing the sun, moon and the earth similar to before.

now with that in mind, we've an official source showing us how the human realm and demon realm stack up to each other, the human realm seems to be smaller of the two if anything.

Simply speaking, Joie is not fast enough to outpace Dante, because as earlier shown Dante's stats function at the absolute pinnacle of the tournament but in addition, his skill makes him more or less untouchable for most present in the tournament, I will display this here, first let's look at Dante vs Mundus in Devil May Cry I, Mundus constructs a universe and flies away, they battle each other while flying through the stars.

https://streamable.com/jeli10

now a conventional quantification of this feat is nearly the realm of impossibility, but something I noticed recently was how they traversed from a distance where every star looked just like another star to a distance where they reached a rocky planet clearly with an atmosphere, storms and so forth, clearly reaching at least a certain distance from one of the stars, thus reducing the distance between their initial positioning and one of the Stars.

clearly, the planet would need the Sun's energy to have a storm, a gravitational force to keep it active from a geothermic perspective and so forth, thus the Planet being reasonably close to one of the Stars that seemed very distant in the first video I posted.

now, for quantification's sake, let's look at the planet itself.

https://streamable.com/aergee

taking the Solar System as analogous to our solar system, we can identify the place as a part of an inner solar system, considering the rocky and solid structure of the planet, so now let's function with two options, Earth and Venus.

It cannot be Earth due to the distinct lack of Water or life, so we go on to Venus being the perfect place, not literally Venus but the distance between the Star and the planet is equivalent to the distance between the Sun and Venus, contextually we will take the distance between this planet and it's star as equivalent to the Venus's perihelion, which is about 0.72AU.

Final Distance = 0.72AU from Star.

At a point where the Sun starts seeming like just any star, lowballing, would be Pluto's aphelion which is about 49.5AU

initial Distance = 49.5AU from Star

so taking that into account, we have our starting point and ending point, and can simply calculate the distance travelled by Mundus and Dante while fighting

Distance Travelled = 49.5-0.72AU = 48.777AU

just 1AU is equal to one hundred Forty-Nine Million Kilometers, and in this context, there is 48.77AU being travelled casually while fighting, more or less, in the midst of their battle Dante and Mundus casually crossed 7.4-Billion-Kilometers and now, to take the timeframe, realistically Dante back in Devil May Cry III had relativistic feats very consistent when he was far weaker than Mundus fight version, but for the sake of no calc stacking, I'm gonna assume the feat was done in 30 seconds, which is a literal eternity from the perspective of characters this fast.

Putting it in numbers?

Speed = Distance/Time = 7,445,486,069km/30s = 248,182,867.98km per second.

Dante was crossing 248 Million kilometres in a single second while casually fighting someone else, in numbers that is about 827 times the speed of light, operating yet again near the limits of the tournament for both Dante and Mundus.

but this is not where it ends, we've seen speed, now let's move on to skill

in the Devil May Cry II novel, we meet an alternate version of Mundus, one more powerful that has gained oneness with an infinite Void, who attacks and fights Dante, Void Mundus was implied superior to the original version and thus he gets the same attack speed and scale as above aka operating near the limits of the tournament, and this comes with the added benefits of omnipresence as he is described to be everyone in this void/darkness, the darkness that encompasses the whole void and is an infinite void.

It was terribly dark for a human, accompanied by echoes that evokes despair to those who hear it. It was no longer a laughter of this world. Beryl heard it. A high-pitched, echoing laughter. So dark it couldn't possibly be human, the mere sound just by hearing it would make one cannot help but feel despair. Up and down, or even left and right are uncertain in this space, she is standing alone. There is no sign of Dante nearby. It can't be. Right now he is, beyond Beryl's gaze---in the palace of the endlessly spreading darkness, where a fierce battle is unfolding. His opponent, is the Demon King himself? It's so large that it surpasses all the demons she has ever dealt with or have seen, a body structure that gives the impression of immeasurable power. It is so strong that she felt like falling down just by looking at it, an intimidating feeling she had no way of resisting. It's appearance, she cannot capture it as an image. Only the coagulate darkness

so now, we've Mundus operating near the limits of the tournament speed-wise with the added benefits of omnipresence throughout an infinite Void, and now Dante is immersed in that void.

what does Dante do now? well, go out, stand in the endless Void, dodge all of Mundus's attacks and destroy him.

The dark body, which was thought to never take damage, groaned and shuddered in pain.

"That's a good voice. Give me more."

Fierce gunshots roared, and countless bullets turned into arrows of light that ran through the Demon King.

The mere balls of lead that weren't anything special made even the supposed overwhelming being that is the Demon King suffer in pain, hurting him and even eventually causing him to creep away.

But of course, the Demon King wasn't just going to sit back and let himself be beaten.

His countless arms swung down swords, rained down arrows of demonic power, and fired bolts of lightning, all in an attempt to bury the insolent challenger.

"You are naive, Mundus. I already know what you're capable of."

As he said that, Dante's footwork was light and he ran through the empty space, avoiding most of the attacks.

Furthermore, his counterattacks were painfully delivered upon the Demon King, inflicting fatal wounds.

The Demon King, Mundus, could not understand this.

He was supposed to be an absolute being, an eternal ruler free from even the flow of time, and to rule over all things in creation.

Yet now, here was an opponent who had power that could rival his--

Nay, perhaps this opponent is even more powerful than he is.

so now, what does this mean? well, what it means is that even if a character gains omnipresence while his reaction and combat speed function at the limits of the tournament, due to the sheer skill gap, they still won't be able to touch Dante

• Demonic Aura - Dante, just like other demons, has a demonic aura and a massive presence potent enough to cause things to explode but in addition, he can impose the primordial instinct of fear on things that should logically be completely unbounded by such a concept, Dante's demonic Aura is so potent that even inanimate objects, which should have no concept of fear, are absolutely terrified at his mere presence.

Demonic Aura can also passively soul crush, which includes life, energy, mind, memory and all those components.

• Sparda's darkness - Dante has shown the power to consume and engulf something in darkness, completely negating their powers and reverting them back to their original powerless states, which seems to be innate to Sparda's power more than anything else, Dante used this against a demon to negate their power and transformation and revert them back into their normal state.

if you get consumed in the darkness, your powers are simply nullified and so are your transformations by Dante's demonic energy.

• Ebony and Ivory - with Ebony and Ivory, if the attacks land, they can downright disintegrate your existence, as in break you down molecule to molecule to the point that there aren't even any atoms left, deconstructed on a sub-atomic level, obviously, this is deconstruction on a sub-atomic level.

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• Gilgamesh - With Gilgamesh, Dante has the power to manipulate the composition of organic matter to turn them into metals nearly instantly, he absorbs them and then uses their essence to construct steel.

any organic ability or matter on the battlefield will simply be manipulated by Dante.

• Analytical Prediction - Dante is capable of combating Chen on equal footing via abusing his analytical prediction and ability to predict Chen's moves, his analytical prediction more or less works on the same level as Chen's precognition, which is something that goes beyond time itself and can see all futures instantly, more or less a buffed version of Almighty from a recognition standpoint, it goes volumes to speak about Dante's sheer intelligence to have analytical prediction of that level.

Anything Mu will think of doing, Dante will predict and counter instinctively.

• Mind and Memory Destruction - Every Hit from Dante can destroy One's Mind and Memory, destroying the very thoughts themselves and thus every hit won't just be on the basic spiritual and physical level, it would be on mental and memory level as well, and thus would completely fuck up his opponent without significant mental damage counters showings.

Demonic Adaptations - Dante has the power to evolve and go past hax, as he did to weapons that are anti-devil and absorb demonic energy which had previously affected him.

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What does this mean? if an ability doesn't one-shot Dante, then it will simply be adapted to, countered and beaten.

• Sparda's Sealing - Innately, beings of Sparda are capable of sealing demons and things away, Dante's sealing is even more potent than Sparda's, now why does this matter? because this means Dante's sealing is greater than Sparda's entirely, which means that Dante can downright be scaled to Sparda sealing away entire planes of existence.

so Dante's sealing potency is beyond characters that can seal the entirety of the Demon realm, and Dante can seal things up in something as casual as Ebony and ivory bullets, what does this mean? Dante can seal up entire dimensions casually.

• The Smell of Fear – a power that renders Dante completely invulnerable to upto three moves, likely a result of gameplay mechanism as there is no lore reason for the three move limit to even exist, the invulnerability is achieved through intangibility.

• King Cereberus - another unique item that allows Dante to basically cool down things and freeze them to absolute zero temperatures, just the classic temperature and Ice manipulation tool.

• The Yamato - now the craziest one of them all, Yamato, The prized possession of Sparda and the most powerful weapon in the setting, one of its main powers is to literally manipulate existence and split it into two, giving power its own form and being, separating power from heart aka the individual, and thus leaving one powerless, because the power has been transformed into a new existence.

one slash of the Yamato, and there is no more <insert opponent>, There is now Heart and Power.

• More on Yamato - naturally, Sparda beings are resistant to the Saviour as shown by Dante not being absorbed by Saviour and the fact that the Saviour and that Nero could not initially be absorbed by the Saviour either, only way to absorb it is to negate the innate sparda resistance to it, and well, Yamato can cut apart a resistance in two with ease.

this should contain the scans and with this in mind, any resistance you present, is potentially negated as well, so be careful in what you present

Judgement Cut is the most iconic and used ability of the Yamato, and the first of Dante's multiple sections I intend to reveal throughout the tournament but simply don't feel the need to, yet. Judgement cut is less of a technique and more of a transference of the area of affect of the Yamato, it transports Yamato's slashes to seprate spatial coordinates.

The Nature of Judgement Cut

as I explained above, Judgement cut works via transporting the slashes to seprate spatial coordinates, this is how one conventionally attacks with the Yamato, the traditional way.

but this is transformed by judgement cut, it allows you to manifest the slashes at a distance and a spatial coordinate, and thus it becomes very difficult for you to even counter it.

Judgement cut can be used to achieve extreme Area of Effect surround the caster of the Judgement cut.

or it can be used to land blows on an enemy directly, bypassing the conventional requirements.

Judgement Cut can cut apart spacetime completely, it just saves Vergil or Dante the bother of even having to move a single step, spacetime simply omnidirectionally crumbles away when a decent judgement cut is used.

Area of Effect of Judgement Cut

The area of affect is never really made clear as there is no hard limit shown but I think a certain line of thought should give us an idea of the upper limits of the judgement cut, come from this scan.

this line of thinking would include taking this into account, thinking of it i realized the true implication of this scan is that it can seprate entire worlds, and in this context, it seprated Demon World from Human World.

when looking back at the manga, I realize, Mundus openly talks about merging the worlds before Sparda's rebellion, and thus I conclude that it's entirely probable that the demon world and Human world were already fused by Mundus into one world and it was sparda, after the battle with Mundus and his army, seprated the tao worlds again and this time sealed up the demon realm.

and this is completely possible, as we know Pluto, who was beneath Mundus, who was far beneath Sparda was able to split the universe in two with his spear, and his narrative wasn't even space manipulation like Yamato, really, there would be no logic behind someone like Pluto having greater power of the same kind than a weapon of Sparda and something of immense power on it's own.

so I conclude Judgement Cut's range is good enough to be operating at the limits of the tounrament, as we know, the split between demon world and the human world was done in such a manner that human world (light) pretty much was a massive cut in the demon world (darkness), assuming Sparda returned the world to the same as it was before.

From this, I would argue the Range of judgement cut is at the minimum logically operating at the limits of this tournament, it's hard to quantify, but it's impossible to see anything below Star level as the range, so for now I would argue Star level range for Judgement Cut.

The Abilities of Judgement Cut

as I've explained, Judgement cut isn't some form of new technique, it's simply the extension of the target of Yamato and the extension of it's area of affect, and thus it retains all the abilities of the conventional Yamato, Yamato's slicing scales from Rebellion as Yamato's gimmick is the sword that seprates and Rebellion reunites so Yamato gets all the slicing feats of Rebellion as well, to list all the abilities and slicing.

• Soul, Mind, Life, Powers and Energy Slicing – was able to Slice away Nero from Saviour and Bring his soul back after the saviour absorbed him on a spiritual level, Souls in Devil May Cry were elaborated upon earlier in this post.
• Space-Time Slicing – Yamato has downright shattered away spacetime by cutting them to pieces to the point space time very much falls away like literal glass pieces after being shattered.
• Existence Slicing – as shown before, Yamato can be used to slice apart your existence, ending one person as an existence and constructing two new beings with new souls and body and everything practically.
• Resistance Negation – as shown before, A single Stab from Yamato can negate any form of resistance to something you were completely immune towards.
• Mind Slicing – Scaling from Rebellion, which cut down Mundus's thoughts and mind while cutting through the Void.
• Memory Slicing – As shown by Vergil, he sliced away his memories from himself by a simple use of Yamato.
• Void Slicing – Scaling from Rebellion, which cut through Void Mundus and his void body completely, destroying him.
• Sealing – The Yamato can seal away even the tree of Qipiloth, which is far superior to even the demon world and can fuse the two realms.

Final worlds on Judgement Cut

you've to counter all the above lethal abilities on a star level range while also keeping in mind how resistances would simply be negated due to the resistance negation mechanism of the Judgement Cut, Good luck.

This section will include one of the most important feats around regarding resistance in Devil May Cry, so I will like if you pay attention to this section completely so you understand where a lot of later arguments come from. in Devil May Cry II, after the defeat of Mundus, due to demons and humans alike, and Sparda's seal weakening over hundreds of years, Argosax the Chaos, the second Demon Emperor was released into the world.

as I explained before, both Argosax and Mundus are Demon Gods, but their nature differs that where for Mundus merging the world is a need, for Argosax the transformation of the world into it's base form, the form the primordial world began as, is a need. Argosax is closely connected to the Demon realm in ways that allow his existence to do a phenomenon described as the merging of the world, well not exactly, it's described as the demon realm consuming the world.

Additional Context - Dante was summoned to defeat Argosax, which is described as something that would stop the demon world from consuming the human world.

but in reality, it was not the demon world which was consuming the human world, that cannot happen, that has never happen, the seal between the worlds was reestablished between the games, what was really happening was that the human world was being warped and was being returned to its primordial state.

The Original form of everything, was Darkness, the world was born of darkness as the first line in the manga suggested.

Darkness in this context isn't just void or space, darkness in this context is the demon realm, existing in its very base, the primordial nature of existence.

basically, Argosax was the demon world in the context, consuming and turning the world back into the demon realm by just the sheer demonic energy, manipulating everything back to original form, the entire cosmology was going to be warped into the primordial darkness by the Eclipse/Argosax.

why does this matter? the demon realm differs in a lot of ways than the human world, on a fundamental level, for example, for a teeny tiny example.

and this is just one Teeny Tiny example of what would need to be done for the universe to be turned into the primordial darkness of demon realm, but the above would mean Argosax's existence Telepathically dominated accross dimensions, connections dimensions of times and stopped conventional time.

why does this matter? simple, every effect of Argosax's warp, which was on the scale of the human world which I explained operated at the absolute limit of this tournament, was resisted by Dante when Dante stomped him and basically called him light work.

This includes every difference between Demon World and Human world, and there are like a dozen of them. So keep this in mind when I counter inidividual abilities.

100,000,000 melting point (that's several times hotter than the Sun)

that does not impress me, any random demon can tank all the weapons from modern humanity and not fall and instead kill them all.

this includes barrages of Nuclear Weapons, which can reach temperatures of 100,000,000 momentarily individually, while comparetively, Dante's fire powers such as Agni&Rudra certainly bypasses that level of heat resistance.

Absolute Zero fortitude

and now I shall invoke power scaling, King Cereberus is a high level demon with ice powers and thus would logically upscale from these demons that can cause sub absolute zero ice.

Star Level Durability.

Dante has never struggled to cut through that and he always can just judgement cut.

Impossible to phase through

Impossible to use Space Skill including portals and teleportation

That doesn't mean anything, all Demons come with the basic ability to dimensional travel, but Sparda's seal negated all methods for demons to cross over to the human world, even Mundus, Yamato however ignores this seal entirely, and thus no spatial lockdown of any sort is stopping Yamato since it's enhanced.

Why can't Dante judgement Cut out of this prison?

Star Level Aura

That doesn't do anything, Dante is easily handling Star level power, Argosax's aura itself was doing feats of an atleast compareable scale.

Instantaneous reconstruction

Quantum Level regeneration

not worried, considering I'm cutting the very existence in two, I'm not worried about regeneration.

Star Level Mind Manipulation

Star Level Soul Manipulation

The Earlier tie in I established between Soul and Mind allows me to counter them by just posting one instance, but I will be generous and post both, considering Argosax's Warp was affecting both accross the verse.

• All beings were being turned into Demons accross the verse - Soul Manipulation.
• All beings were having their minds warped accross the verse - Mind Manipulation.

both on atleast Star range due to human world size, Dante didn't even notice these

Black Hole Creation

Black Hole Precision Spamming

Black Holes work on something following the law of gravity, a demon, by it's very nature can deviate from the laws of reality on which reality is founded.

so overall, I see no reason why Dante can't just ignore a blackhole, he follows the laws because they're convineant to him, it's not like he is forced to

Space Destruction

I am not worried about this at all, Dante can withstand Judgement Cut from Vergil and well...

so space destruction is one of the things not worrying.

Space Manipulation and Control

yet another application of Argosax's warp, to turn Human world into Demon World, the human world needs to be filled off with countless continous space-time loops of the same event, no demon notices this, Dante doesn't notice this from Argosax.

Portal Creation

cut the part of reality where the portal actually manifests

Void Interaction

Shrugs

Multi-Planetary Sonic Resonance

just Multi planetary huh? tanks.

Molecular Destruction

Every Demon is immune to the Beasthead Assimilation process which involves breaking down matter to the point it becomes basic energy.

Radiation Destruction

refer back to the argument regarding Deviating from the laws of the universe and the argument regarding how any demon is immune to all weapons of humanity, radiation included.

and even if a resistance is somehow bypassed, Devil Trigger makes you immune to abiities that you cannot even resist.

First of all, great post. I'm happy to see the lore behind many of the referenced characters. That being said, there appear to be quite a few inconsistencies between the lore, actual feats and what you've posted.

There's a lot to cover in this post so I'm going to be quite frank throughout it.

Alright let's get started. There are A LOT of inconsistencies with Dante's powerscaling here. You've got him at star level yet posted no actual star level feats (I'll discuss Savior later), posted him defeating Mundus and Argosax, both of which you yourself state are universal, and most of scaling you're claiming is a direct contradiction to the actual Devil May Cry feats.

frankly, I don't need to mention as much as you did to match your power level and attack potency,the above is a being called Saviour, the culmination of countless demonic entities into one single existence, the Saviourafter losing Nero which would severely affect its powers,

Alright, first of all, the first and second links are dead.

is capable enough to construct recreations of the conventional world, the said existence was doing it very easily, seconds at most if you want to put it in numbers.

Second, there's nothing in that link that says Savior is capable of constructing recreations of the conventional world. Nero finds himself in a nightmarish recreation of the Ferrum Hills. Is there anything stating Savior made this and if there is, how do we know this is recreating a conventional world?

This is all that link contains:

This is largely impressive due to the consistent existence of suns in some of these realms.

And yes, when I say consistent I do mean consistent, so we've one sun and then the existence of a planet and then the existence of a moon.

as I've displayed already, the construction of the realms is near-instant and effortless, but for sure measure, I will post all the instances where the construction of the realms is shown to be near-instant.

[1]

[2]

[3]

To be honest, you need to do A LOT better then this. This isn't VSB where we blindly equate the backgrounds of pocket reality battlefields to actual power. You need solid feats or statements proving that level of power for this to fly. This isn't nearly enough evidence to support the claims you're making here.

As far as I can tell from your scans and links, Dante or Nero steps onto a colored circle (Stairway to Heaven inside of Savior for those who don't know) and gets teleported to another location. I understand you're claiming that Savior is instantly making these realms the moment Dante or Nero steps onto the circles, so do you have any videos or scans to support that claim? Couldn't Savior have made the dimension ahead of time and Dante or Nero is just being teleported? (Yeah Nero, Dante, whatever)

Next, you call these realms that contain suns and moons, can you prove these were all made by Savior. Forgive me for saying this but there is far too much weight being put on your words and not enough evidence to support them. Can you show anything that states Savior directly made a Sun or Moon?

On the subject of Realms, are these not just pocket dimensions? Pocket Dimensions with stars in the background are a pretty common troupe. There are DOZENS of characters out there capable of creating pocket dimension with stars, planets and entire cosmos within and yet the actual size of those dimensions are far smarter.

Heck, one of Mu earlier enemies, the Assassin King can do the exact same thing you're claiming Savior can do. He creates a pocket dimension containing numerous stars. According to your logic, this would make him multi-star level correct?

The problem with that logic, is that the actual narrative doesn't support it. The pocket dimension the Assassin King created is only 1/100th the size of the solar system. It still contains multiple planets within and there are even stars in the background. Of course these stars weren't actually created by the Assassin King, since it doesn't line up size of the space. They are merely a part of the background, added by the artist.

Gallery

How do we know the Sun and moon you're referencing aren't the same thing? How do we know they were created by Savior and aren't part of the artist's background? You need to provide more context and support here for this type of claim to be acceptable.

Demonic energy is inherently tied to power and thus it's basically Saviour's demonic energy taking dimensional shapes and constructing at least three separate celestial bodies, A Star, a Moon and an Earth all done nearly instantly as we can see on-panel. another thing, Saviour's destructive capabilities directly are implied to be similar to his creation capabilities, considering Saviour was considered to be capable of destroying and recreating the world in the same sentence, this goes in consistent with Saviour with less demonic energy than 100% due to the crystals breaking and Nero splitting, the remaining demonic energy can still easily construct dimensions with sun-moon-earth trio.

I mean we see Dante or Nero step on a circle and appear somewhere else. That's it. You need to provide more evidence to make us believe this is Savior instantly creating something.

"The purpose of the Order was to build an ideal homeland...only those who are chosen by God...the paradise that is eligible to live...in order to change the now decaying world...we have to do this...in order to create a new world, we had to set off huge chaos and destroy the world...

Deadly Fortune

...

The sound came from afar, although it was a lot weaker, but Dante smiled and heard the contents of it. It was too funny to call out the demons and then destroy them to be heroes. However, the high voice of the Pope continues:

"Come on, come and pray! Give a hymn! When the world is not destroyed!"

Dante felt that they were really desperate, and appreciative applause. Dante has witnessed many wicked people who are self-proclaimed heroes.

These two statements would really benefit from more context. The Order is planning to create a new world and destroy the world in what context? Is destroying the world actual world busting? Are they referring to the entire Human realm (a universe) as the world? Are they talking about wiping out humanity? How long would it take the Order to "destroy the world"? Context, context, context. Without it, this statement is impossible to validate.

And Dante was capable of battling the Saviour for an extended amount of time and besting it, thus besting beings with the casual energy to perform Star-level feats, if you need I can post the calculated results for the Saviour's power, they all come at Star-level.

Something showing him at actual star level would be greatly appreciated thank you. So far all we have are vague gifs of questionable teleportation/realm manipulation with very very little context. At least show Dante or someone he scales to busting a planet or something.

Nightmare, a being with no will, created by the earlier demon kings is the embodiment of ruin and destruction, Nightmare was such a powerful monster that it was sealed away by Mundus because he knew that Nightmare could lay waste to all of Demon World, which was more or less Mundus's kingdom, the nature of the destruction was not stated in the manga but it was stated in another source whichquite literally states that the Demon World would perish if Nightmare is to be releasedand then we've another source detailing the actual method of destruction,the method being the literal lifting and slamming of the demon world and thus destroying it.

Help me out here, I can read Korean, not Japanese lol. Please get that translated as so far, its the only actual statement confirming anything you've mentioned thus far can actually destroy (really destroy) a world.

now, with all that out of the way, we need to discuss the nature of the demon realm it's size and dimensions have to be conversed upon for us to reach a good judgement on what level this narrative puts the nightmare's physical strength on, first of allwe will look at the Mirror world which is a replica of the human worldand as we can see,it contains a sun, we don't know the area the terms of "demon world," and "human world" cover and bind but that is certainly a measure, the replica of human realm containing the sun,moonand the earth similar to before.

Interesting, so they're separate dimensions with their own cosmos? Lines up with one of your first scans that references the size of the Demon Realm + Human Realm being the Universe:

So wouldn't that make the Demon Realm something far exceeding Star Level and thus Nightmare somewhere in the universal range? But that doesn't sense, since you also said, Dante destroyed Nightmare. Surely universal scaled Dante is mistake.

Simply speaking, Joie is not fast enough to outpace Dante, because as earlier shown Dante's stats function at the absolute pinnacle of the tournament but in addition, his skill makes him more or less untouchable for most present in the tournament, I will display this here, first let's look at Dante vs Mundus in Devil May Cry I, Mundus constructs a universe and flies away, they battle each other while flying through the stars.

"Mundus constructs a universe..."

Okay, so maybe the universe sized Demon Realm wasn't a mistake. I hope this wasn't the same Mundus that Dante destroyed and sealed away... Are you deliberately trying to pass off a universal character as a star level character?

Dante destroyed Mundus, sealed away his powers and sealed him away entirely. Dante then destroyed Argosax and killed it permanently, he destroyed Nightmare, he destroyed Mundus's generals and even destroyed the Beastheads, as well as became Humanity's greatest defender, same as Sparda, but at the end, Dante went past Sparda as well, and thus becoming the strongest known character in Devil May Cry History.

they battle each other while flying through the stars.

https://streamable.com/jeli10

now a conventional quantification of this feat is nearly the realm of impossibility

This is honestly worse than the pocket dimension scaling. Being sucked into Mundus' space =/= flying through the stars. Its honestly way too vague without more context. Context that I took it upon myself to find. Here's screenshots with timestamps of what actually happened there. Here's the full video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jvwzkwmFn0&t=180s

Mundus appears and creates a space that sucks Dante in. Where is the speed feat!?

Gallery

A short dialogue later, Mundus flies away and Dante follows. There's not indication of distance traveled other than what we see. In fact, a few seconds after Dante flies after Mundus, he appears completely outside Mundus' star field in the clouds, transforms and then the two fight in a thunderstorm.

I know what you're trying to say. You're trying to say that Mundus and Dante flew across the stars to another planet and had their fight. I read the same thing on VSB when I researched this feat and I'm honestly surprised anyone would support that weak argument.

You do realize those "stars" are in the background right? Like they aren't actually flying around stars in that video at all. They're just moving through an unknown distance (doesn't look like a lot). Let me give you an example. You lay on the ground at night, staring up at the moon. Someone walks over you. What you see is someone walking pass the moon. Did they actually walk passed the moon? Of course not. Its all a matter of perceptive. The same thing is happening here. There are stars in the background. Dante and Mundus are in the foreground. Perceptive matters.

But let's play devils advocate and say that really is Dante flying through space and past stars. That's still only one feat. When you consider the plethora of vastly inferior speed feats Dante has, that space feat turns into nothing more than an outlier. Heck, in that very same battle, Dante gets struck by lightning.

How can you claim he's moving (traveling) at MFTL speeds when he can get hit by lightning like that? He also gets hit by meteors but I think you get the picture.

Of course if he had other speed feats, I'm be happy to say I'm wrong but based on what I've seen so far, Dante might as well be a statue compared to Mu.

but something I noticed recently was how they traversed from a distance where every star looked just like another star to a distance where they reached a rocky planet clearly with an atmosphere, storms and so forth, clearly reaching at least a certain distance from one of the stars, thus reducing the distance between their initial positioning and one of the Stars.

clearly, the planet would need the Sun's energy to have a storm, a gravitational force to keep it active from a geothermic perspective and so forth, thus the Planet being reasonably close to one of the Stars that seemed very distant in the first video I posted.

now, for quantification's sake, let's look at the planet itself.

https://streamable.com/aergee

taking the Solar System as analogous to our solar system, we can identify the place as a part of an inner solar system, considering the rocky and solid structure of the planet, so now let's function with two options, Earth and Venus.

It cannot be Earth due to the distinct lack of Water or life, so we go on to Venus being the perfect place, not literally Venus but the distance between the Star and the planet is equivalent to the distance between the Sun and Venus, contextually we will take the distance between this planet and it's star as equivalent to the Venus's perihelion, which is about 0.72AU.

Final Distance = 0.72AU from Star.

At a point where the Sun starts seeming like just any star, lowballing, would be Pluto's aphelion which is about 49.5AU

initial Distance = 49.5AU from Star

so taking that into account, we have our starting point and ending point, and can simply calculate the distance travelled by Mundus and Dante while fighting

Distance Travelled = 49.5-0.72AU = 48.777AU

just 1AU is equal to one hundred Forty-Nine Million Kilometers, and in this context, there is 48.77AU being travelled casually while fighting, more or less, in the midst of their battle Dante and Mundus casually crossed 7.4-Billion-Kilometers and now, to take the timeframe, realistically Dante back in Devil May Cry III had relativistic feats very consistent when he was far weaker than Mundus fight version, but for the sake of no calc stacking, I'm gonna assume the feat was done in 30 seconds, which is a literal eternity from the perspective of characters this fast.

Putting it in numbers?

Speed = Distance/Time = 7,445,486,069km/30s = 248,182,867.98km per second.

Dante was crossing 248 Million kilometres in a single second while casually fighting someone else, in numbers that is about 827 times the speed of light, operating yet again near the limits of the tournament for both Dante and Mundus.

So let me get this straight. Mundus creates a space that sucks in Dante. The two fly an unknown distance through space into a thunderstorm, fight for awhile. Dante gets struck by Lightning, hit by meteors and other attacks. Mundus gets mad and spears Dante with his red spears than hits him with a bunch of meteorites, sending him out of the thunderstorm, and down to the rocky surface of a planet. Here, Dante proceeds to shoot Mundus to death at which point, the space Mundus created disappears, leaving Dante in the temple where he started with Trish.

If you watched entire video, you'll see that everything you just used for speed feats was pointless. Mundus makes a pocket dimension (or universe if you wanna roll those dice) with space in it that sucks in Dante. They fight over an unknown distance and after Mundus is defeated, the pocket dimension disappears, returning Dante to his starting point. There's nothing FTL about any of that.

On a side note, if we were to follow your earlier logic of pocket dimension stars = actual power, than Mundus is massively beyond Star Level as the space he created has hundreds of stars in the background. That simple fact would completely throw out the entire Dante vs Mundus feat for a few very simple reason. Dante beats a character over the tournament limits. Dante travels across hundreds of stars worth of distance, making him vastly exceed the speed limit. Of course, I don't subscribe to that level of madness but you have to admit, Dante's scaling is inconsistent as hell. And that's the only speed feat you posted, so you're definitely going to need to do better than that.

Now, I like to keep an open mind and I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if you can prove otherwise but things aren't looking good for Dante's stats right now. I truly have no idea where to put his stats. On the surface you explain it so confidently but when I take a moment and actually research the feats myself, none of what you're saying actually adds up. You've got him beating characters that you yourself state can create a Universe and then you're trying to push Savior scaling at Star Level because the pocket dimensions he teleported Dante into, has a sun in the background. But then you don't apply the same logic to Mundus' created space which contains hundreds of Stars. Its a mess.

How about this. Can you show Dante or anyone he scales to actually destroying a planet or a star without resorting to referencing a character clearly over the limits? That would make this entire thing so much easier.

A problem that I think you'll find is that Dante, as a videogame character has horribly inconsistent feats. His videogame feats are honestly more in line with what you'd expect from a one-pointer. (Yes, I am aware there are DMCA feats in there, I just took some random ones from the credited RT, feel free to compare DMC1-5, LN and DMC Manga feats that are also on the RT to confirm its all around the same level) For reference, Tony is an alias used by Dante in the light novel.

• Smacks away a fireball, destroying a T-Rex fossil [DMC1]
• Matches a giant monster in strength who was able to destroy a giant stone wall just by moving [DMCA]
• Is pushed back against a wall by a demon hard enough to split open the brick/stone wall, and was able to still hold up his sword with just one hand [DMCA]
• Smacks away a demon who launched itself hard enough to destroy a large advertising structure [DMCA]
• Creates a large explosion just by swinging his sword [DMCA]
• Stalemates a powerful demon, and completely overpowers it with the use of DT [DMCA]
  • The demon Abigail is able to strike a skyscraper hard enough to damage the entire building

Credit - https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/qf0rqa/respect_the_legendary_devil_hunter_dante_devil/

I mean, there's an actual feat of Dante getting his legs blown off and his bones and muscles being turned into unrecognizable paste by a shotgun of all things. This isn't something a "Star Level" character should be injured by.

Even Dante's speed feats are vastly inferior to what you're trying to push. There's even LN speed feats included that prove composite Dante isn't anywhere near the level of speed you're trying to claim:

• Reacts and shoots down several sniper shots after they've been fired [LN2]
• He dances around conjured swords, arrows, and "lightning" [LN2]
• Running as fast possible, he's out sped by bullets [LN2]
• Saves a woman from an explosion [DMC2]
• Dodges a shot from a tank [DMC2]
• Dodges a missile from an attack helicopter [DMC2]
• Avoids machine gunfire from an attack helicopter [DMC2]
• Saves a woman before an energy blast reaches her and avoids a large explosion twice [DMC2]
• While in mid-air, blocks two bullets shot from a magnum [DMC4]

Credit - https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/qf0rqa/respect_the_legendary_devil_hunter_dante_devil/

I understand there's no context to most of these feats but its a lot more consistent then what you've shown. You're going to have to show some better evidence to support Dante is operating at tournament's peak. I'd recommend finding a direct feat or statement of someone creating/destroying a star or planet and show Dante beating that individual.

in the Devil May Cry II novel, we meet an alternate version of Mundus, one more powerful that has gained oneness with an infinite Void, who attacks and fights Dante, Void Mundus was implied superior to the original version and thus he gets the same attack speed and scale as above aka operating near the limits of the tournament, and this comes with the added benefits of omnipresence as he is described to be everyone in this void/darkness, the darkness that encompasses the whole void and is an infinite void.

It was terribly dark for a human, accompanied by echoes that evokes despair to those who hear it. It was no longer a laughter of this world. Beryl heard it. A high-pitched, echoing laughter. So dark it couldn't possibly be human, the mere sound just by hearing it would make one cannot help but feel despair. Up and down, or even left and right are uncertain in this space, she is standing alone. There is no sign of Dante nearby. It can't be. Right now he is, beyond Beryl's gaze---in the palace of the endlessly spreading darkness, where a fierce battle is unfolding. His opponent, is the Demon King himself? It's so large that it surpasses all the demons she has ever dealt with or have seen, a body structure that gives the impression of immeasurable power. It is so strong that she felt like falling down just by looking at it, an intimidating feeling she had no way of resisting. It's appearance, she cannot capture it as an image. Only the coagulate darkness

So let me get this straight. Mundus, the guy who you said created a universe, gets stronger and Dante beats him.

Do you not see the problem posting something like this?

so now, we've Mundus operating near the limits of the tournament speed-wise with the added benefits of omnipresence throughout an infinite Void, and now Dante is immersed in that void.

Where is this so-called Omnipresence? I must have missed it, could you please clearly show where it states Void Mundus is omnipresent?

what does Dante do now? well,go out, stand in the endless Void, dodge all of Mundus's attacks and destroy him.

so now, what does this mean? well, what it means is that even if a character gains omnipresence while his reaction and combat speed function at the limits of the tournament, due to the sheer skill gap, they still won't be able to touch Dante

Calling any of that Skill is quite the reach. Did we read the same thing? It literally states that while Dante is fighting Mundus, the demon king is raining down countless sword blows, rains of demon arrows and bolts of lightning. Most of those fail to hit Dante because as he states:

"You are naive, Mundus. I already know what you're capable of."

As he said that, Dante's footwork was light and he ran through the empty space, avoiding most of the attacks.

Dante knows what Mundus can do and avoids most of his attacks. How is that any different from knowing your opponent dodging their attacks accordingly? You're making this out to be Dante being impossible to hit but in reality, its Dante knowing his opponent's attacks and dodging them. I thought this was going to be some Mori Jin level Skill but this is just...sad.

Bare in mind that this is just another in a long line of vague statement feats that don't much up to the actual character. Heck if you want to claim Dante being so impossibly skilled the an omnipresent universal character can't hit him (which is what you're trying to do) then why does Dante get hit so often?

• Is brought to near death after being attacked by a barrage of sharp rocks[LN1]
  • Dante was already weakened from fighting several stronger demons in succession
• Sent reeling from an attack he describes is capable to "shatter bones"[LN1]
• While boosted by being in Hell and wielding his Sparda, he survives being impaled twice and bombarded by small meteorites[DMC1]
• Is smashed into a brick wall, but is unfazed and shoots while being held down[DMCA]
• Is beaten by a very powerful demon and impaled multiple times, yet treats it as nothing[DMCA]
• Is punched multiple times in the head and survives[DMC4]
• Caught in a wave of fire that blows away dilapidated houses and worn down trees, but he doesn't care at all[BtN]
• Caught in a large explosion and is unharmed[VoV]
• Takes a blow that can destroy Rebellion[DMC5]
  • Although he's downed for a moment.

Credit - https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/qf0rqa/respect_the_legendary_devil_hunter_dante_devil/?rdt=38668

For someone who's supposedly so skilled that he never gets hit, he sure does get hit a lot.

Hopefully we're done with the vague inconsistencies and can move onto an actual debate.

Demonic Aura - Dante, just like other demons, has a demonic aura and a massive presence potent enough to cause things to explode but in addition, he can impose the primordial instinct of fear on things that should logically be completely unbounded by such a concept, Dante's demonic Aura is so potent that even inanimate objects, which should have no concept of fear, are absolutely terrified at his mere presence.

Demonic Aura can alsopassively soul crush, which includes life, energy, mind, memory and all those components.

Not bad. Too bad Mu can is completely unaffected by mind and soul attacks far exceeding anything you've show.

You're going to need a lot more than fodder control fear inducement to scare Mu. Especially when you consider he was completely unfazed by a star level mind/soul attack (Cloud Immortal Planet in my opener). Remember that was only at 5% of his mental capacity too.

Remember that the Cloud Immortal's Mental/soul attack eroded the souls of the Three Legged Crow's formation masters, people who specialize in using their minds and souls to control galactic ships several kilometers long.

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Just the mere presence of a God General can cause fear based hallucinations that cause a mental breakdown:

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Their mental breakdown is so strong it could kill at least 20 billion people.

And yet, Long Fei, Mu's Dragon Queen Soul Soldier is completely unaffected by their fear to the point she fights the group of God Generals while also protecting Three Legged Crow.

So a little fear isn't doing anything to mu.

Sparda's darkness - Dante has shown the power to consume and engulf something in darkness, completely negating their powers and reverting them back to their original powerless states, which seems to be innate to Sparda's power more than anything else, Dante used this against a demon to negate their power and transformation and revert them back into their normal state.

Can you provide a reference for how powerful this darkness is? I see it being used on a demon but no reference to how strong that demon is. Could this darkness have negated the power of beings like Savior, Mundus or any of the other high tier demons? That's the kind of scale you need to show before this can be considered a threat.

Also, power negation vs a 3D printer? Remember the way things work in Iron Ladies is through downloading weapon blueprints directing into the brain and then 3D printing them into a Battle Form. Could Sparda's Darkness negate a 3D printer from functioning?

In fact, the Saint even tried that very same thing by using her formation. The Saint's formation negates the use of any "Hot Weapons" or anything that uses electronics. This blocks the use of any cannons, blasters, ships, etc... .

(Note - The red barbarian cannon is a historic gunpower cannon, not a modern weapon)

Despite this, Mu's first action against her was to 3D print two cannons and a shoot a black hole in her face, proving that he is unaffected by her power negation.

Ebony and Ivory - with Ebony and Ivory, if the attacks land, they can downright disintegrate your existence, as in break you down molecule to molecule to the point that there aren't even any atoms left, deconstructed on a sub-atomic level, obviously, this is deconstruction on a sub-atomic level.

Been there, done that. Sub-atomic level attacks are nothing compared to Mu's quantum level regeneration.

With Gilgamesh, Dante has the power to manipulate the composition of organic matter to turn them into metals nearly instantly, he absorbs them and then uses their essence to construct steel.

Do you really want to use try that lol? Mu eat's literal robots and absorbs them.

Besides, he is utterly immune to transmutation:

In Iron Ladies, the entire Angel Gear program is based on injecting Holy Blood into woman to transform their bodies into weapons. Their flesh fuses with carbon steel and as you've seen from the various scans, they can transform their bodies into a variety of machine like mechas called Battle Forms to fight their enemies.

Mu was thrown into a vat of Holy Blood which as shown above for females, transforms them into Angels but for everything else, be it flesh or metal, it dissolves.

As you've already seen in my first post, Mu wasn't dissolved and instead gained the power of the Dragon Empress. So right off the bat, Mu in his weakest form resists the corrosion of a Star level being. Now of course some might say that resisting having his body dissolved isn't the same thing as resisting Transmutation and I'd be inclined to agree. That was merely meant to set the stage.

Enter the Saint yet again. Those in the Saint's presence will be "Sacrificed" and transformed into her feather scales (crows). Simply by passing by from space, she turned an entire planet's population into birds.

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The Saint did that to a billion people before too.

The Saint's transmutation isn't just fodder control either. She turned Himiko, a God-Destroying Heaven Tier Angel (one that defeated a demon possessing the power of the Sun) into a space ship.

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Her transmutation is so powerful in fact that even through a spatial crack she can cause those on Earth to be transformed into her feather scales. Despite the Saint's great power, Long Fei, Mu's first Soul Soldier was able to not only resist the transformation but also stopped it!

As you now know, Mu can use 100% of his Soul Soldier's abilities so her resistance applies to him, not that he needs it as he was unaffected by her presence as well. In fact, she was going to resort to eating Mu to gain his powers since she couldn't transmute him.

He has other methods to deal with transmutation as well, such as reforging his body from pure energy (not a KO since Mu's physical body is still on the battlefield in whatever transmuted shape that is), possessing Aizen, Gerard or Kakashi's body as he's done with other souls or just 3D printing a brand new body from nothing.

In short, good luck using any form of transmutation against Mu.

Analytical Prediction - Dante is capable of combating Chen on equal footing via abusing his analytical prediction and ability to predict Chen's moves, his analytical prediction more or less works on the same level as Chen's precognition, which is something that goes beyond time itself and can see all futures instantly, more or less a buffed version of Almighty from a recognition standpoint, it goes volumes to speak about Dante's sheer intelligence to have analytical prediction of that level.

Oh you mean like how Mu can interact with someone outside of space and time and exists on a higher dimension? I wonder how prediction would work on someone like that? I'm guessing not so well unless you have higher dimension analytical prediction powers.

Not that it will help since the one speed feat you posted is either vastly inferior to what you're claiming or vastly over the limits.

Mind and Memory Destruction - Every Hit from Dante can destroy One's Mind and Memory, destroying the very thoughts themselves and thus every hit won't just be on the basic spiritual and physical level, it would be on mental and memory level as well, and thus would completely fuck up his opponent without significant mental damage counters showings.

Hmm another reference to Dante beating Mundus (the guy who created a universe). I'm so glad we're using universal feats here lol.

Anything, Mind and Soul attacks don't do anything to Mu. I've already shown star level (you know, the actual tournament limit) mind and soul resistance, mind resistance that can no sell a mental attack strong enough to kill at least 20 billion people. Here's some more mental and soul resistance feats to put that to rest:

Divine Goddess Corpse casts a mental/spiritual controlling attack across the galaxy (its done through communication satellites so the range isn't actually galactic or anything like that) controlling several planet's worth of people and even forcing them to kill themselves and their families in sacrifice to her.

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Mu and his soul soldiers are completely unfazed.

Then the Divine Silk Goddess casts a similar mental/soul attack that is more than a hundred times stronger than the Divine Goddess Corpses attack and again Mu is completely unaffected.

So yeah, mind and soul attacks aren't doing jack poop to Mu.

Demonic Adaptations- Dante has the power to evolve and go past hax, as he did to weapons that are anti-devil and absorb demonic energy which had previously affected him.

What does this mean? if an ability doesn't one-shot Dante, then it will simply be adapted to, countered and beaten.

Isn't that Beryl and Chen doing that? What's that have to do with Dante? Also, what's the timeframe for these adaptions? How do they help when Dante is already dead in one hit?

Sparda's Sealing - Innately, beings of Sparda are capable of sealing demons and things away, Dante's sealing is even more potent than Sparda's, now why does this matter? because this means Dante's sealing is greater than Sparda's entirely, which means that Dante can downright be scaled to Sparda sealing away entire planes of existence.

so Dante's sealing potency is beyond characters that can seal the entirety of the Demon realm, and Dante can seal things up in something as casual as Ebony and ivory bullets, what does this mean? Dante can seal up entire dimensions casually.

Which means he can seal the Universal Mundus??? I'll just let that sink in.

Anyway, how does the sealing work? All it says he is sealed it, no description on how or how long it took. How do we know this is even battle applicable? Definitely needs more explanation.

The Smell of Fear – a power that renders Dante completely invulnerable to upto three moves, likely a result of gameplay mechanism as there is no lore reason for the three move limit to even exist, the invulnerability is achieved through intangibility.

Intangibility is no problem, Mu's grabbed literally nothingness before.

King Cereberus - another unique item that allows Dante to basically cool down things and freeze them to absolute zero temperatures, just the classic temperature and Ice manipulation tool.

Is that a wiki screen shot? Do you have the actual source material? Anyway, that screen shot straight up says its Vergil using King Cerebus, not Dante.

Besides, Mu regularly fights in space, in areas completely devoid of stars. Cold temps aren't doing much to him.

The Yamato - now the craziest one of them all, Yamato, The prized possession of Sparda and the most powerful weapon in the setting, one of its main powers is to literally manipulate existence and split it into two, giving power its own form and being, separating power from heart aka the individual, and thus leaving one powerless, because the power has been transformed into a new existence.

one slash of the Yamato, and there is no more <insert opponent>, There is now Heart and Power.

• More on Yamato - naturally, Sparda beings are resistant to the Saviour as shown by Dante not being absorbed by Saviour and the fact that the Saviour and that Nero could not initially be absorbed by the Saviour either, only way to absorb it is to negate the innate sparda resistance to it, and well, Yamato can cut apart a resistance in two with ease.

this should contain the scans and with this in mind, any resistance you present, is potentially negated as well, so be careful in what you present

I've been waiting for this one. First, why are you treating Yamato like its standard equipment for Dante??? Yamato was only in Dante's possession for a brief time during the entirety of the DMC series. Since you posted a wiki screenshot earlier, I'll do the same and save myself some typing:

Yamato once belonged to Vergil's father, Sparda who split his immense power into it as well as Force Edge and Rebellion, and according to the Order of the Sword, it was used to seal the "true Hell Gate" of Fortuna. It was eventually given to Vergil as a memento, and he used it as his primary weapon.

Devil May Cry 4 Vergil wields the Yamato during his attempt to reactivate the Temen-ni-gru alongside Arkham, to unlock the sealed gate of the Demon World and claim his father's power and sword, the Force Edge, for himself. When he is ultimately defeated by Dante, Vergil falls into the Demon World with Yamato, where he is found by Mundus. Vergil attempts to defeat the demon king like his father, but is defeated and reborn as Nelo Angelo. Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening

Yamato was badly damaged and shattered by Mundus during or after his battle with Vergil. Before turning Vergil into his servant, the elder Son of Sparda lost his grip on Yamato's hilt and the sword was lost to him afterwards.

Devil May Cry 5: Visions of V At some later point, Yamato was found by the Order of the Sword - albeit in its shattered state. It was kept in Agnus's Containment Room within Fortuna Castle but is restored and taken by Nero when his dormant powers as an heir to Sparda emerge. From then on, Nero is able to use the sword while in Devil Trigger. Dante attempts to reclaim the Yamato from Nero, stating that such a powerful weapon had to "stay in the family", but let Nero hold onto it as he went off to save his beloved Kyrie. However, it is taken back from him by Sanctus when he is absorbed into the Savior and is then used by Agnus to reopen the Hell Gate. After slaying Agnus, Dante retrieves Yamato from the gate seal and uses it to destroy the gate, after which he wields it while in his Dark Slayer Style. While fighting the Savior, Dante uses the blade to free Nero and sends it back to him so that the youth can finish the fight against Sanctus. After the battle, Dante charges Nero with keeping it, having realized the boy to be his brother's son after seeing its reaction to him in their second fight, though he would not reveal this to Nero until sometime later.

Devil May Cry 4 One of Yamato's shards was found by the fire demon Balrog, who used it to escape the Fire Hell realm of the Demon World, with this shard being destroyed during Balrog's battle with Dante.

Devil May Cry 5: Before the Nightmare Yamato would remain in Nero's possession for an untold period, remained inside of his Devil Bringer arm as the young hunter continued his career in slaying demons. Unfortunately, Nero would lose possession of Yamato after getting ambushed by Vergil, who effortlessly tore the Devil Bringer off from Nero and reclaimed his lost sword. Vergil would then use the sword to return to his childhood home in Red Grave City, where he then used the Yamato's ability to separate man and devil on himself in a bid to heal his decaying body and increase his demonic power, while also ridding himself of his human heart and the painful memories of his time as Nelo Angelo.

This created the powerful full demon who would come to be called Urizen, while Vergil's humanity would inhabit his cast off crumbling flesh, which came to call himself V. V would allow the discarded Nightmare demons to inhabit his body so they would not fade away, keeping them and himself alive for a short time, as separated from Urizen who now wielded the bulk of their once shared demonic power, V's own body was slowly crumbling away with every move he made as what little demonic power he had left was not enough to sustain it.

When he became Urizen, the Demon King used the Yamato to open a massive portal to the Demon World in Red Grave City so that he could summon the demonic tree Qliphoth. In battles with Urizen, the Yamato took on the form of a reddish-orange crystal that prevented any attacks from reaching him. When the Qliphoth fully revealed itself, he calls the shield away, briefly reverting back into its original form for only a second before vanishing into his hand. After reforming, Vergil would then use the Yamato to battle both Dante and Nero before descending into Hell to cut the roots of the Qliphoth tree and seal the portal to the Underworld opened by Urizen.

Devil May Cry 5

Credit - https://devilmaycry.fandom.com/wiki/Yamato#Story

So if Yamato is currently with Vergil and Dante himself left it to Nero, why are you using it with Dante here? Its clearly not standard equipment for Dante and without the non-standard equipment perk, you can't use it.

Rebellion is Dante's sword. That's his standard equipment as stated on the official Devil May Cry website, by Capcom.

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Aside from that, do you have anything showing Yamato works on non-demon/devil entities? Its pretty heavily implied to "Separate Man from Devil" but could it separate say, Aizen from the Hogyoku or Gerard from The Miracle?

The entire thing also assuming you'll ever get the chance to use Yamato, which based on your single pretty debunked speed feat and the fact that Dante doesn't actual have Yamato, you won't.

The Nature of Judgement Cut

as I explained above, Judgement cut works via transporting the slashes to seprate spatial coordinates, this is how one conventionally attacks with the Yamato, the traditional way.

but this is transformed by judgement cut, it allows you to manifest the slashes at a distance and a spatial coordinate, and thus it becomes very difficult for you to even counter it.

Judgement cut can be used to achieve extreme Area of Effect surround the caster of the Judgement cut.

or it can be used to land blows on an enemy directly, bypassing the conventional requirements.

Judgement Cut can cut apart spacetime completely, it just saves Vergil or Dante the bother of even having to move a single step, spacetime simply omnidirectionally crumbles away when a decent judgement cut is used.

So its a space cut. Cool. Vajra Sarira negates Hyperspace and space destruction, a few space cuts aren't doing anything here. Mu and Ding being obliterated by space destruction but then undoing the destruction with the Vajra Sarira, completely integrating Mu with space, essentially sealing all space powers.

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Oh and for reference, the space law of the Divine Silk Goddess was gifted to her by the universe itself, so it doesn't get much better than that, expect the Vajra Sarira of course :)

The area of affect is never really made clear as there is no hard limit shown but I think a certain line of thought should give us an idea of the upper limits of the judgement cut, come from this scan.

this line of thinking would include taking this into account, thinking of it i realized the true implication of this scan is that it can seprate entire worlds, and in this context, it seprated Demon World from Human World.

when looking back at the manga, I realize, Mundus openly talks about merging the worlds before Sparda's rebellion, and thus I conclude that it's entirely probable that the demon world and Human world were already fused by Mundus into one world and it was sparda, after the battle with Mundus and his army, seprated the tao worlds again and this time sealed up the demon realm.

and this is completely possible, as we know Pluto, who was beneath Mundus, who was far beneath Sparda was able to split the universe in two with his spear, and his narrative wasn't even space manipulation like Yamato, really, there would be no logic behind someone like Pluto having greater power of the same kind than a weapon of Sparda and something of immense power on it's own.

so I conclude Judgement Cut's range is good enough to be operating at the limits of the tounrament, as we know, the split between demon world and the human world was done in such a manner that human world (light) pretty much was a massive cut in the demon world (darkness), assuming Sparda returned the world to the same as it was before.

From this, I would argue the Range of judgement cut is at the minimum logically operating at the limits of this tournament, it's hard to quantify, but it's impossible to see anything below Star level as the range, so for now I would argue Star level range for Judgement Cut.

This is a VERY VERY big reach. You're making an assumption based on pieces of lore spread across the entire series. An assumption that contradicted direct feats shown in the series. The range of Judgement Cut has been shown several times in the gifs of VERGIL using Yamato. To claim otherwise would require actual on panel visual evidence.

as I've explained, Judgement cut isn't some form of new technique, it's simply the extension of the target of Yamato and the extension of it's area of affect, and thus it retains all the abilities of the conventional Yamato, Yamato's slicing scales from Rebellion as Yamato's gimmick is the sword that seprates and Rebellion reunites so Yamato gets all the slicing feats of Rebellion as well, to list all the abilities and slicing.

Why does Yamato's slicing scale from Rebellion? Sure Yamato and Rebellion were both created by Sparda but why would Yamato get Rebellion's slicing feats? They're two different weapons.

Soul, Mind, Life, Powers and Energy Slicing – was able to Slice away Nero from Saviour and Bring his soul back after the saviour absorbed him on a spiritual level, Souls in Devil May Cry were elaborated upon earlier in this post.

Where is the power and energy slicing coming from? I see Yamato in knife form being used to separate man from devil (another reference to Yamato's man/devil limitation) but nothing about power and energy. Anyway, Mu's comically immune to soul and mind manipulation so that's out.

Space-Time Slicing – Yamato has downright shattered away spacetime by cutting them to pieces to the point space time very much falls away like literal glass pieces after being shattered.

See above Mu sealing a much more powerful space/time ability.

Existence Slicing – as shown before, Yamato can be used to slice apart your existence, ending one person as an existence and constructing two new beings with new souls and body and everything practically.

Where does it say anything about existence slicing? From what I just read that yet another case of man being separated from devil.

Resistance Negation – as shown before, A single Stab from Yamato can negate any form of resistance to something you were completely immune towards.

That was Nero being physically stabbed with Yamato in the arm. Do you have any proof that Judgement cut does the same aside from assumption?

Also, from your video, it was Nero's devil arm that was negated, again separating man from devil. Like Nero is literally missing that arm in DMC5 so wasn't the negation limited to just his arm?

Mind Slicing – Scaling from Rebellion, which cut down Mundus's thoughts and mind while cutting through the Void.

Void Slicing – Scaling from Rebellion, which cut through Void Mundus and his void body completely, destroying him.

Proof Yamato's Judgement Cut can be scaled to an entirely different weapon used by an entirely different person? Doesn't matter anyway as Mu's mental resistance to so damn high it won't do anything.

Mu isn't a void being so that's irrelevant.

Memory Slicing – As shown by Vergil, he sliced away his memories from himself by a simple use of Yamato.

Mind resistance, to bypass this would require proving Judgement Cut has Yamato's resistance negation and even then, I've already shown Mu's power negation resistance.

Sealing – The Yamato can seal away even the tree of Qipiloth, which is far superior to even the demon world and can fuse the two realms.

So that's universal sealing then huh? Good to know. ANYWAY, if we keep it within the tourney limits, Mu's already shown star level resistance to this so that's that.

you've to counter all the above lethal abilities on a star level range while also keeping in mind how resistances would simply be negated due to the resistance negation mechanism of the Judgement Cut, Good luck.

And I think I did just that. Now its your turn. Prove Yamato is part of Dante's standard toolkit and applicable here. Prove that Yamato's abilities apply to Judgement Cut, i.e. actually show Judgement Cut doing any of the mind, soul, sealing, etc... abilities you're claiming it can do. Without that, this is all vague assumptions on your part.

both Argosax and Mundus are Demon Gods, but their nature differs that where for Mundus merging the world is a need, for Argosax the transformation of the world into it's base form, the form the primordial world began as, is a need. Argosax is closely connected to the Demon realm in ways that allow his existence to do a phenomenon described as the merging of the world, well not exactly, it's described as the demon realm consuming the world.

Additional Context - Dante was summoned to defeat Argosax, which is described as something that would stop the demon world from consuming the human world.

but in reality, it was not the demon world which was consuming the human world, that cannot happen, that has never happen, the seal between the worlds was reestablished between the games, what was really happening was that the human world was being warped and was being returned to its primordial state.

The Original form of everything, was Darkness, the world was born of darkness as the first line in the manga suggested.

Darkness in this context isn't just void or space, darkness in this context is the demon realm, existing in its very base, the primordial nature of existence.

basically, Argosax was the demon world in the context, consuming and turning the world back into the demon realm by just the sheer demonic energy, manipulating everything back to original form, the entire cosmology was going to be warped into the primordial darkness by the Eclipse/Argosax.

why does this matter? the demon realm differs in a lot of ways than the human world, on a fundamental level, for example, for a teeny tiny example.

and this is just one Teeny Tiny example of what would need to be done for the universe to be turned into the primordial darkness of demon realm, but the above would mean Argosax's existence Telepathically dominated accross dimensions, connections dimensions of times and stopped conventional time.

why does this matter? simple, every effect of Argosax's warp, which was on the scale of the human world which I explained operated at the absolute limit of this tournament, was resisted by Dante when Dante stomped him and basically called him light work.

This includes every difference between Demon World and Human world, and there are like a dozen of them. So keep this in mind when I counter inidividual abilities.

Forgive me for going on a bit of a rant but could you please try to stay consistent with your scaling. You've openly stated that Mundus and Argosax were equals. You've also stated that Mundus created a universe. And now you're stated that Argosax was warping an entire cosmology into darkness. With you yourself stating so many times that Mundus and Argosax are at such high levels, how are we supposed to believe you when you then turn around and contradict yourself by saying:

"scale of the human world which I explained operated at the absolute limit of this tournament"

It really looks like your cherry picking the lore to fit to the tournament's limits. Either be straight and say Mundus/Argosax are universal and thus cannot be used for scaling and such, or show that they really are only STAR level. I imagine this will be difficult considering you literally posted Mundus creating a universe but I have faith in you.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm going to continue this debate under the assumption that everything you've stated about universal and cosmologies was hyperbole and they are in fact only star level. Bare in mind that this is not me accepting them at that level, that burden of proof is still on you. I'm just working under that assumption temporarily so I don't delay the tournament.

100,000,000 melting point (that's several times hotter than the Sun)

that does not impress me, any random demon can tank all the weapons from modern humanity and not fall and instead kill them all.

this includes barrages of Nuclear Weapons, which can reach temperatures of 100,000,000 momentarily individually, while comparetively, Dante's fire powers such as Agni&Rudra certainly bypasses that level of heat resistance.

Not a single modern weapon capable of killing a demon. I guess the van splattering bunch of demons and these random soldiers gunning down a bunch of demons is the exception to that statement. There a couple demons burning to death from a car explosion too. Hell Nico literally burns a demon with a lit cigarette lol!

The key word in the whole nuclear weapon heat thing is MOMENTARILY. Its a flash that's over in a less than a second. A flash won't melt anything. Melting point is a sustained heat. A mini-second flash of 100,000,000 isn't melting Dead Gold. Do you have any proof that Dante's fire power reach these temperatures?

So I'm guessing that statement is more hyperbole than anything else.

Absolute Zero fortitude

and now I shall invoke power scaling, King Cereberus is a high level demon with ice powers and thus would logically upscale from these demons that can cause sub absolute zero ice.

And how does that help Dante? Can you prove he can freeze stuff as well as King Cerberus?

Star Level Durability.

Dante has never struggled to cut through that and he always can just judgement cut.

*cough cough* you mean VERGIL has Judgement Cut and Yamato right?

That's also assuming you successfully prove Dante is operating at Star Level and not Universal level. So far you have some scaling to Savior based on teleporting to different battle stages. That's vague at best. Let's see some actual star busting or at least scale to someone who can (without resorting to dumbing down universal level characters).

Impossible to phase through

Impossible to use Space Skill including portals and teleportation

That doesn't mean anything, all Demons come with the basic ability to dimensional travel, but Sparda's seal negated all methods for demons to cross over to the human world, even Mundus, Yamato however ignores this seal entirely, and thus no spatial lockdown of any sort is stopping Yamato since it's enhanced.

Why can't Dante judgement Cut out of this prison?

And why should Yamato's space cutting work under the effect of the Vajra Sarira when even the space law granted by the universe cannot? Not to say Vajra Sarira is universal as it clearly isn't, it just operated on a much higher scale then mere your average space manipulation.

Star Level Aura

That doesn't do anything, Dante is easily handling Star level power, Argosax's aura itself was doing feats of an atleast compareable scale.

You mean the aura that was absorbing the entire cosmology??? Eh, something tells me that's not applicable in this tournament.

Besides a star level aura would be dealing CONSTANT star level damage to Dante. If he really is at the tournament's limit, then this aura would push Dante's durability to the absolute limit and a single additional attack should be enough kill him.

Instantaneous reconstruction

Quantum Level regeneration

not worried, considering I'm cutting the very existence in two, I'm not worried about regeneration.

Cutting with what exactly? Vergil's weapon that you're stealing?

Except you're not. It doesn't say it cuts existence. It separates man from devil. That's what it says. Mu isn't devil, hell its not even a demon. Demons to do exist in Iron Ladies and Mu already painted it across the atmosphere. So if anything Yamato would work on the Demon but what's it going to do to someone without demonic energy?

Also cutting Mu in half, really? You think that's going to do anything to the guy who's regenerated from quantum destruction?

Star Level Mind Manipulation

Star Level Soul Manipulation

The Earlier tie in I established between Soul and Mind allows me to counter them by just posting one instance, but I will be generous and post both, considering Argosax's Warp was affecting both accross the verse.

• All beings were being turned into Demons accross the verse - Soul Manipulation.
• All beings were having their minds warped accross the verse - Mind Manipulation.

both on atleast Star range due to human world size, Dante didn't even notice these

That's funny because here's Dante falling to his knees when he grabs the Haywire Neo-Generator as his soul is drained.

I guess that universal soul resistance isn't all its cracked up to be.

Black Hole Creation

Blake Hole Precision Spamming

Black Holes work on something following the law of gravity, a demon, by it's very nature can deviate from the laws of reality on which reality is founded.

so overall, I see no reason why Dante can't just ignore a blackhole, he follows the laws because they're convineant to him, it's not like he is forced to

Seriously? You're going to try and pull that? Fine, here's a few feats clearly showing Dante is effected by gravity.

• Jumps up and down
• More jumping and falling down
• More jumping
• Jumping over bullets
• Jumps off a tower and falls down

And no, Dante isn't following the laws because they're convenient for him. He's effected by gravity just fine. A black hole to his head will kill him and no matter of twisting vague statements will save him from that.

Space Destruction

I am not worried about this at all, Dante can withstand Judgement Cut from Vergil and well...

so space destruction is one of the things not worrying.

This might be the first thing I agree with lol.

Space Manipulation and Control

yet another application of Argosax's warp, to turn Human world into Demon World, the human world needs to be filled off with countless continous space-time loops of the same event, no demon notices this, Dante doesn't notice this from Argosax.

And how does that apply to Dante? What's significance does that hold to prevent Mu from controlling space?

Portal Creation

cut the part of reality where the portal actually manifests

Or Dante gets squashed before he can react since the one speed feat you posted for him was debunked and is largely inconsistent with the dozen of speed feats showing him as vastly slower.

Multi-Planetary Sonic Resonance

just Multi planetary huh? tanks.

Based on scaling to Savior's teleportation pad right? Now prove that Savior created those dimensional spaces or better yet, show someone actually at planetary level or above. I'll wait

Molecular Destruction

Every Demon is immune to the Beasthead Assimilation process which involves breaking down matter to the point it becomes basic energy.

Where does it say demon are immune to Assimilation? Also didn't you literally say, Ebony and Ivory break stuff down at the molecular level? If demons are immune to molecule destruction, why do Dante's guns work on them then?

Radiation Destruction

refer back to the argument regarding Deviating from the laws of the universe and the argument regarding how any demon is immune to all weapons of humanity, radiation included.

and even if a resistance is somehow bypassed, Devil Trigger makes you immune to abiities that you cannot even resist.

You mean the demons that get killed from road rage and bullets?

And your scan doesn't say anything about Devil Trigger making you immune to abilities. I think you may have used the wrong scan. Its talking about a monster jumping on you so transform into Devil Trigger to break free.

Currently, I don't feel threatened by your abilities, your last comment gives me hope that the second post would reveal all the cards on Mu and bring in a bunch of impressive abilities, I would look forward to the counter.

I'd say the same but I'm honestly just disappointed. I went into this because I thought Dante would be a good opponent. Instead I get a mix match of statements, lore and vague feats stitched together into a crowd pleasing but ultimately false story. There were so many inconsistencies from Dante's overall power being scaling to a vague teleportation/pocket dimension battlefield to beating Mundus after he created a universe. The speed argument is even worse, abusing a gif that didn't show the main points of the feat and then claiming stars in the background equal crossing light-years of distance when its just perception of the background. The scaling from Mundus and Argosax is even worse with statements and feats of them clearly at the universal level and then Dante defeating them. Then attempting to claim they are only at the tournament's level when Nameless himself, showcased them as otherwise.

This entire match was one huge disappointment but I promised a full power Mu Siyun so I shall deliver as much despite Dante's lack of deserving such treatment.

To conclude this, I would simply write a short summary on the abilities and powers that I believe Dante possesses and the stats, the same way you handled the conclusion of your post, I will list the abiities I think may play a factor.

Clearly Star level Attack Potency

Clearly Star level Physical strength

Clearly Stat level durability

There's nothing clear about that. You posted Dante stepping onto a teleporter pad, being warping to another location or pocket dimension and then claimed Savior created these places. You didn't actually show Savior making them or give us anything to show Savior actually made them. All we have is your word, which based on the other claims you've made, simply isn't good enough.

MFTL combat speed

Based on a VSB calculation of all things. That alone should have told you this was wrong. Your gif didn't show what actually happened and when you explained it, you left out important context that changed the feat into something it wasn't. Dante flew through an unknown distance of Mundus' dimensional space. The MFTL speed scaling is immediately debunked in that very same fight where Dante gets hit by lightning and meteors, both of which a true MFTL character should never be struck by. Not to mention the plethora of anti-feats show Dante at a VASTLY inferior speed.

Insane skill feats, some of the best feats you will find anywhere.

Except that entire match made absolutely no mention of skill. You added that. It was Dante knowing what Mundus was capable of.

Power Nullification

Which Mu is resistant to. Add in the nature of Iron Ladies 3D printing and power null is useless.

Reactive Evolution

Adaptation

Are you talking about the Devil Trigger? You have the wrong scan. All that scan explained was using the Devil Trigger transformation to break free of a monster.

Soul, Power, Mind, Thoughts, Life etc Absorption and destruction via Soul physiology.

Useless against Mu

Power Nullification via Sparda's darkness.

See Power Null above

Dimensional sealing

Over an unknown amount of time.

Sub Absolute Zero (Via King Cerebrus)

Requires supporting scans to scale this

Arguably >100,000,000C temps via Agni

Debunked by demons getting burned by a cigarette and car explosions.

Sub Atomic Deconstruction

Useless against Mu

and ofcourse, the abilities presented with Yamato, and the fact the area of effect is increased to the limits of this tournament by judgement cut as well as the fact it allows the weilder to target spatial coordinates instead of just having to swing the sword to cut down space, on top, the spatial applications of Yamato are enhanced, as shown by it cutting down demons, basically you need.

• Soul Slicing
• Mind Slicing
• Life Slicing
• Power Slicing
• Memory Slicing
• Void Slicing
• Energy Slicing
• Space-Time Slicing (Enhanced)
• Existence Splitting

resistances on the scale of the limit of the tournament, and even if you do, you've to remember, its I who control the resistances.

1. Yamato can remove resistances

2. Devil Trigger can grant resistance to a technique one has been seen before.

so you've to get past my control over resistances of both ends as well, can you do it? that has to be seen. I also intend to make it clear, we have not even gone over all the Yamato abilities yet so what I'm trying to say is, I hope Mu's True power can push Dante to a portion of his true power.

This entire section is contingent on you using a non-standard weapon for Dante. Let be clear here. Yamato isn't Dante's weapon. Dante's weapon is Rebellion. Yamato belongs to Vergil. When Dante did have Yamato, it was only briefly and he left it to Nero, willingly giving up the weapon.

Aside from all, I've thoroughly countered every ability of Yamato. Its hyped up a lot but when you actually look at the feats and context, its not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

As I said before, I promised our readers a Full Power Mu Siyun so I intended to deliver on that promise. As you should know by now, Mu Siyun is a Soul Tier Angel in the Iron Ladies universe. The unique trait granted to him as a Soul Tier is the ability to insert his soul into others and use them as his Soul Soldiers. His main body remains the same but he can also attach his soul to his soul soldiers. These are powerful bodies with their consciousness' erased.

Gallery

Mu has full control over these Soul Soldier as they are all still him. As such, its more accurate to call his Soul Soldiers clones than anything else and as clones, that means Mu can use them here. So what's worse then facing Mu Siyun? Facing ALL of Mu Siyun.

Dragon Queen Long Fei

God General Twins

Shura Melody Demon

Metal Form Mu

Xiao

Bare in mind that each Soul Soldier is also Mu, as such, they all have the capacity to use 100% of his abilities. You're essentially facing seven clones of Mu Siyun at the same time. But wait it gets better.

Each clone is strong enough to one shot one of the Saint's Feather Scale clones.

Gallery

The Saint's Feather Scale Clones are made from stars.

Gallery

Should you manage the impossible and actually kill one of Mu's clones, he can simply reach into the afterlife and pull them back to the battlefield like nothing happened. Here he reaches into the afterlife and brings Ding Yuan back to life, instantly resurrecting her to the battlefield:

Gallery

To make it ever worse, Mu can actually resurrect himself whenever he wants. Here he possesses a completely normal human and comes back to life after he suicided himself against the Saint.

He could do the same thing to any member of your team. The soul resistance you've provided for Dante is entirely reliant on scaling to Argosax's cosmology warp which is a universal feat. Without that, Dante is left with a vastly inferior soul defense, one that was even damaged by the Haywire Neo-Generator draining his soul. None of your other team players have the soul resistance needed to defend themselves against Mu's possession (since you didn't bother to post about them). Possession mind you, that can be done against Rank #1 Battle Puppets, which are on par with Heaven Tier Angels (Heaven Tier Angels like the Immortal Godmother are star level). That's Star Level Possession right there.

In short, unless you somehow manage to kill all seven of Mu's clones at the exact same time, he'll just keep resurrecting himself or possessing your team.

Your team will be faced with all of the following happening at the exact same time:

• Black Hole Spam
• White Dwarf Star Bomb Spam
• Sonic Resonance upgraded to Star Level
• Death Qi with its Star destroying Aura
• Molecular Destruction
• Physical Star Level Attacks
• Energy Blasts at Star Level

There is no character in this tournament that can survive a bombardment of so many Star Level attacks without significant regeneration, something Dante does not possess. Even if you take out all the hax, its still multiple star level attacks hitting you at once. That's not to mention Mu's powerful Mind and Soul attacks, his control over space or his ability to spam the Dead Gold Prison with any of his clones.

In short, this is an impossible battle for your team to win.

This was a very long post so I'll make my summary quick. Here are the problems with Dante:

• His Stats are based on scaling to Savior creating dimensional spaces that contain a star and scaling to Mundus who created a universe containing hundreds of stars.
• His speed is based on a single feat with background perspective of Dante flying through space and yet he's slow enough to be struck by lightning and has multiple feats showing him at a far slower speed. Feats from the manga, anime, LN and game all confirm this.
• His resistance scaling his based on a universal character
• Everything with Yamato is based on Dante using a non-standard weapon without the perk and applying Yamato's physical abilities to his Judgement Cut

All and all, Dante is either vastly inferior to what's being claimed as the tournament's limit or he greatly exceeds it depending on which statement you choose to read.

Meanwhile Mu has consistent feats and scaling, multiple attacks that can one shot Dante, even if Dante is operating at the tournament limit (which he isn't based on what's been posted). With his cloning and resurrection abilities, Mu is basically unkillable under these conditions He has resistance or immunity to everything Dante can dish out from mind, soul, power null, sealing, intangibility, transmutation and all of Dante's physical attacks.

All and all this isn't even a fight. Its a one side massacre with Mu and his clones utterly devastating Dante and his team.

I apologize if I was short or disrespectful in this post, but these are things that needed to be said. I wish my opponent luck in clarifying the vague information provided and hope his next post is something more fitting of Mu Siyun's attention.

Alright, first of all, the first and second links are dead.

Ugh, Blame comicvine

Second, there's nothing in that link that says Savior is capable of constructing recreations of the conventional world. Nero finds himself in a nightmarish recreation of the Ferrum Hills. Is there anything stating Savior made this and if there is, how do we know this is recreating a conventional world?

The reason I'm arguing that it is the conventional world is because it's not just fleerum hills that is being recreated, other places are reconstructed too, the guide just happens to define only one of these heavens, not all of them.

Gallery

now regarding why the recreations are from Saviour, there is no logical narrative explaination on why they would exist, they can only be accessed via a small fraction of the Saviour's power, the only logical explaination for the existence of these is being recreations made by Saviour, that's the only logical conclusion we can reach from on-panel evidence.

To be honest, you need to do A LOT better then this. This isn't VSB where we blindly equate the backgrounds of pocket reality battlefields to actual power.

and unlike VSB we're not an authoritarian regime, and thus we're not set to a certain limit or certain restrictions, we are allowed to have a debate on what can be equated and what cannot be.

You need solid feats or statements proving that level of power for this to fly. This isn't nearly enough evidence to support the claims you're making here.

You go to the first claim and counter it like it's the sole basis for star level, you're meant to take the feats collectively to understand the overall claim, but I digress, let's move more to the topic at hand, the validity of the saviour argument.

As far as I can tell from your scans and links, Dante or Nero steps onto a colored circle (Stairway to Heaven inside of Savior for those who don't know) and gets teleported to another location. I understand you're claiming that Savior is instantly making these realms the moment Dante or Nero steps onto the circles, so do you have any videos or scans to support that claim? Couldn't Savior have made the dimension ahead of time and Dante or Nero is just being teleported? (Yeah Nero, Dante, whatever)

Not really possible, Saviour was completely non-existent before the scene, it was just a statue used as a sealing stone for demons, but when it gained existence via sanctus, it was still not complete until absorbing Nero per Sanctus.

there is no logical situation where Sanctus uses the saviour to randomly crrate dimensions before the full power was achieved by absorbing Nero, there is no logical reason to do that, in the fight you can make the case he is constructing the realms to BFR and deal with Dante, but before?

that's just a narratival assassination.

Next, you call these realms that contain suns and moons, can you prove these were all made by Savior. Forgive me for saying this but there is far too much weight being put on your words and not enough evidence to support them. Can you show anything that states Savior directly made a Sun or Moon?

as long as the recreations which are clearly constructed by Saviour have sun, moon and celestial objects, until proven otherwise, the default conclusion would be they're constructed by what created the dimension at the first place, you don't need evidence of every atom to be constructed by the same character.

On the subject of Realms, are these not just pocket dimensions? Pocket Dimensions with stars in the background are a pretty common troupe. There are DOZENS of characters out there capable of creating pocket dimension with stars, planets and entire cosmos within and yet the actual size of those dimensions are far smarter.

sure thing, I'm not of the opinion that the default assumption should be the stars being fake but the default assumption in my opinion should be the stars being real until proven otherwise.

Heck, one of Mu earlier enemies, the Assassin King can do the exact same thing you're claiming Savior can do. He creates a pocket dimension containing numerous stars. According to your logic, this would make him multi-star level correct?

The problem with that logic, is that the actual narrative doesn't support it. The pocket dimension the Assassin King created is only 1/100th the size of the solar system. It still contains multiple planets within and there are even stars in the background. Of course these stars weren't actually created by the Assassin King, since it doesn't line up size of the space. They are merely a part of the background, added by the artist.

this is just a bad equivalence. your scenario has an official size for the dimension.

if there is an official statement, you've a tool to discard any arguments for the size of the dimension to be greater based on anything but however if this statement wasn't there, then yes I'm pretty consistent in my interpretation, I believe you should refer to the size of natural celestial objects for fictional counterparts as long as there is no evidence to the contrary or it's insanely outlier-ish.

Neither of them apply to the Saviour's case, however, and thus it's just...a star, as valid as any other fictional celestial object.

How do we know the Sun and moon you're referencing aren't the same thing? How do we know they were created by Savior and aren't part of the artist's background? You need to provide more context and support here for this type of claim to be acceptable.

how do we know any verse abides by IRL Logic? there should always be a sense of equalization between our conception of reality and the world and the fictional portrayals of them too, IE – A star is, well, a star exactly until we've direct contradictions to it being a star, just because such a scenario exists in Iron Ladies, that does not extend to Devil May Cry.

I mean we see Dante or Nero step on a circle and appear somewhere else. That's it. You need to provide more evidence to make us believe this is Savior instantly creating something.

let me restructure the statement, a little bit of Saviour's power is activated and a recreation of the world, a new dimension called Heaven appears, you're welcome to tell me how that can happen naturally or without Saviour's involvement.

These two statements would really benefit from more context. The Order is planning to create a new world and destroy the world in what context? Is destroying the world actual world busting? Are they referring to the entire Human realm (a universe) as the world? Are they talking about wiping out humanity? How long would it take the Order to "destroy the world"? Context, context, context. Without it, this statement is impossible to validate.

feel like you didn't understand the argument I was making, saviour exists to recreate what he destroys, in this context it would most likely be the human world which is consistently defined as decaying due to demonic influce, and replace it with a paradise, aka heaven, the argument served more purpose than just the usual "he destroy the world.", the purpose of the argument was to show that Saviour's destructive capabilities (destroy the world) should be propotional to it's constructive capabilities (recreate the world, as a paradise).

Something showing him at actual star level would be greatly appreciated thank you. So far all we have are vague gifs of questionable teleportation/realm manipulation with very very little context.

Teleportation would just be grade A cope, we cannot even prove the prior existence of these realms for us to believe these are something you can teleport someone to, they won't even be recreating something if they're not even

Help me out here, I can read Korean, not Japanese lol. Please get that translated as so far, its the only actual statement confirming anything you've mentioned thus far can actually destroy (really destroy) a world.

annnnnnd here you go.

The Demon is said to have created a powerful weapon he even feared would destroy his own kingdom, sealing his power to stop it. With his great power, he could effortlessly lift the entire structure of the underworld or destroy it. Only an existence comparable to her creator can surpass his intensity. A weapon will become a nightmare for any entity, whether alive or dead

Interesting, so they're separate dimensions with their own cosmos? Lines up with one of your first scans that references the size of the Demon Realm + Human Realm being the Universe:

now this is interesting, as I can only read this as you feel the need to make a vain attempt at getting me DQed, but that doesn't work because I've not argued the terminology of "Demon Realm" to include the cosmos itself, just the area and such that I can confirm that comes under the terminology, the relevant core that Argosax and Mundus were fighting over, it's subsets are it's own thing you may oush me into explaining, later, for now the terminology of demon world I'm using is just vaguely > Mirror Realm and Human Realm which have a star.

So wouldn't that make the Demon Realm something far exceeding Star Level and thus Nightmare somewhere in the universal range? But that doesn't sense, since you also said, Dante destroyed Nightmare. Surely universal scaled Dante is mistake.

Countless verses have universal metas, that doesn't mean I must abide by them all, mine is a legitmate interpretation of the power levels in the verse, if YOU find any other argument valid, well then that's your problem, not mine.

"Mundus constructs a universe..."

Okay, so maybe the universe sized Demon Realm wasn't a mistake. I hope this wasn't the same Mundus that Dante destroyed and sealed away... Are you deliberately trying to pass off a universal character as a star level character?

you know, I don't get this sometimes.

you think I would mention a legitmate feat that way knowing it can go over the limits? Obviously not, the feat is a discussion, and there hve been many arguments over it over the years, thats why I don't quite completely buy it and don't represent it, as it's a contested feat, many verses have universal metas.

This is honestly worse than the pocket dimension scaling. Being sucked into Mundus' space =/= flying through the stars. Its honestly way too vague without more context. Context that I took it upon myself to find. Here's screenshots with timestamps of what actually happened there. Here's the full video:

with all due respect, I reckon that you should first focus on understanding the argument that was being made before trying to critique the argument, because at no point in your post did you come close to actually understanding the argument I'm making, so let's go through everything you've interpreted my argument as and then we will go over what the ACTUAL argument was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jvwzkwmFn0&t=180s

Mundus appears and creates a space that sucks Dante in. Where is the speed feat!?

The speed feat is right there in the opener, you should've read the section with more care and focus.

A short dialogue later, Mundus flies away and Dante follows. There's not indication of distance traveled other than what we see. In fact, a few seconds after Dante flies after Mundus, he appears completely outside Mundus' star field in the clouds, transforms and then the two fight in a thunderstorm.

This? this isn't a cloud, that is just how they managed to visualize space in a video game from early 2000s, you don't fly from space to thunderclouds lol, the lightning is just Mundus using it as attacks as shown later in the fight, regardless, yes, Mundus sucks Dante into a different space, Dante follows Mundus when Mundus flies through the dimension.

I know what you're trying to say. You're trying to say that Mundus and Dante flew across the stars to another planet and had their fight.

that's not the argument I'm making, lol.

I read the same thing on VSB when I researched this feat and I'm honestly surprised anyone would support that weak argument.

I agree, if my argument was actually that, then not only would I not make it, I would also wonder how an argument born out of pure perception could even be supported.

You do realize those "stars" are in the background right? Like they aren't actually flying around stars in that video at all. They're just moving through an unknown distance (doesn't look like a lot). Let me give you an example. You lay on the ground at night, staring up at the moon. Someone walks over you. What you see is someone walking pass the moon. Did they actually walk passed the moon? Of course not. Its all a matter of perceptive. The same thing is happening here. There are stars in the background. Dante and Mundus are in the foreground. Perceptive matters.

Sighs that was not the argument I was making, and indeed, I did add a method for us to calculate and realize the minimum distance that was travelled by Dante and Mundus, infact I put the method on the table, but I will give you another explaination if you need it so much, this is the starting point where they were, the point the travel started from.

as you can see, all the stars in the background appear just like that, Stars.

all the Stars have the relative prominence, not one star looks anything out of ordinary from the stars a human can see from Earth at night, this tells us one thing, the point of space where they are, they are not inside a Star system.

if they were inside a Star system, a star would be more promiment than others, but that doesn't exist, so they start from a point in space where they're not into a star system.

look at the planet, it's clearly very hot given the lava, clearly has an atmosphere given the raging storm, clearly is rocky considering, well... Dante stood on it, this can be taken as perfectly analogous to our solar system and venus, a planet of extreme heat, with storms and what looks to be not a livable climate.

so we have two things to go off by, at the start they were not a part of a Star System but through flight they managed to become a part of a star system and hell, reach inside it to the point they reached an inner planet.

so for conservativity and quantification purposes I decided to take the starting point as a point right at the borders of our star system where sun would start to seem small, Pluto and then use Venus as this planet's equivalent, and use the distance between Pluto and Venus as the conservative minimum for how much they must've travelled, which came out at 0.72 Astronomical units if memory holds, that's the method of quantification used which you frankly did not even address.

But let's play devils advocate and say that really is Dante flying through space and past stars. That's still only one feat. When you consider the plethora of vastly inferior speed feats Dante has,

DMC1-5 Dante has no speed caps so It doesn't matter if I'm representing only one feat, you've presented nothing that would make me think that

that space feat turns into nothing more than an outlier. Heck, in that very same battle, Dante gets struck by lightning.

You're joking right? you think this is natural lightning?

not only is this entirely gameplay, this is also lightning summoned by Mundus lol, its not a natural lightning bolt, it's red lightning energy summoned by someone relative to Dante to hurt him. Marvel Skyfather tiers and some of the fastest characters represented on cv such as Jin Mori, have used lightning to attack someone, that's not because they're slow, it's because the lightning, like any other energy blast, simply scales to their speeds.

How can you claim he's moving (traveling) at MFTL speeds when he can get hit by lightning like that? He also gets hit by meteors but I think you get the picture.

meteor is even worse because that's clearly magical meteors summoned or made by Mundus used to attack Dante.

Of course if he had other speed feats, I'm be happy to say I'm wrong but based on what I've seen so far, Dante might as well be a statue compared to Mu..

considering you don't understand the feat, Yes, You are VERY clearly incorrect.

So let me get this straight. Mundus creates a space that sucks in Dante. The two fly an unknown distance through space into a thunderstorm, fight for awhile. Dante gets struck by Lightning, hit by meteors and other attacks. Mundus gets mad and spears Dante with his red spears than hits him with a bunch of meteorites, sending him out of the thunderstorm, and down to the rocky surface of a planet. Here, Dante proceeds to shoot Mundus to death at which point, the space Mundus created disappears, leaving Dante in the temple where he started with Trish.

Mundus creates, summons or brings a space to them. Mundus and Dante have an exchange which extends with Mundus trying to fly away, and then Dante follows him through space where Mundus's attacks such as lightning and meteors do hit him but that's completely irrelevant as these are attacks from Mundus, they've no speed cap and are simply whatever speed one believes Mundus to be, then Dante manages to land some blows and Dante and Mundus finally make it to a planet, then Mundus loses and Dante seals his powers and all away and then we return to the temple and see trish, that's the order of events.

If you watched entire video, you'll see that everything you just used for speed feats was pointless. Mundus makes a pocket dimension (or universe if you wanna roll those dice) with space in it that sucks in Dante. They fight over an unknown distance and after Mundus is defeated, the pocket dimension disappears, returning Dante to his starting point. There's nothing FTL about any of that.

Over an unknown distance is the key word, the distance from my perspective wasn't unknown, it was a quantifiable distance that I quantified in the first post which you somehow quotes but completely did not address, with the quantification of the travelled distance I already did, we get out with the conclusion that the feat is indeed not FTL, but MFTL.

On a side note, if we were to follow your earlier logic of pocket dimension stars = actual power, than Mundus is massively beyond Star Level as the space he created has hundreds of stars in the background. That simple fact would completely throw out the entire Dante vs Mundus feat for a few very simple reason. Dante beats a character over the tournament limits.

again with the absolutist approaches, just because in a narrative explaination I used the word create doesn't mean it becomes an unquestionable truth, there are many interpretations to this event, and when there are many reasonable interpretations to one event you cannot find an absolute truth, and If I cannot find an absolute truth then I'm not going to represent an event in a formal discussion as undeniable evidence of any assertion, simple as that, Is Mundus making a universe possible? Yes. does a universal meta exist? Sure does. are there reasonable alternative interpretations however? YUP, can I say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mundus created a universe? No.

the event you're referencing can be used as a feat of atleast three different assertions, creation, BFR, realm summoning, and thus I simply won't use the feat here, you're allowed to let this go

Dante travels across hundreds of stars worth of distance, making him vastly exceed the speed limit. Of course,

Oh Dear, again with inventing supposed feats for me to exceed the tournament limits? never said he flew literally past hundreds of stars,

I don't subscribe to that level of madness but you have to admit, Dante's scaling is inconsistent as hell. And that's the only speed feat you posted, so you're definitely going to need to do better than that.

that is not how it works, you've to first actually address my argument before talking about me presenting a new feat, you can't just address an argument you yourself made and ask me to change feats lol

Now, I like to keep an open mind and I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if you can prove otherwise but things aren't looking good for Dante's stats right now. I truly have no idea where to put his stats. On the surface you explain it so confidently but when I take a moment and actually research the feats myself, none of what you're saying actually adds up. You've got him beating characters that you yourself state can create a Universe and then you're trying to push Savior scaling at Star Level because the pocket dimensions he teleported Dante into, has a sun in the background. But then you don't apply the same logic to Mundus' created space which contains hundreds of Stars. Its a mess

a difference, I said Mundus created a universe yes, but I didn't say at all that Mundus has a feat, as I've explained, unlike the saviour scenario, there are actual potent reasonable alternative interpretations to Mundus, which can be backed by actual scans and such things, and there are arguments over three different powers for Mundus by this one feat because of the lack of clarity, I'm not the type of person to make an argument even with lack of clarity, and thus I don't represent the Mundus feat anywhere, please make a new argument

So let me get this straight. Mundus, the guy who you said created a universe, gets stronger and Dante beats him.

Do you not see the problem posting something like this?

Refer to above, tired of addressing this futile attempt.

Where is this so-called Omnipresence? I must have missed it, could you please clearly show where it states Void Mundus is omnipresent?

like I explained to shirso in the previous match already, The Void wasn't just a void, the void itself is Mundus in entireity.

The Void = Mundus

Mundus = The Void

and now regarding more mechanics of this, the void was completely engulfed in darkness.

Right now he is, beyond Beryl's gaze---in the palace of the endlessly spreading darkness, where a fierce battle is unfolding.

Mundus is then comprehended as the darkness

It's appearance, she cannot capture it as an image. Only the coagulate darkness

so Mundus is the darkness that engulfs the void, and yes that's the body, considering that when the darkness is cut through, its described as cutting through Mundus.

The great sword rebellion growled, slashing through the darkness, penetrating the body of the Demon King who stands in his way.

Mundus is the darkness in the void and is one with the void, Dante is fighting inside the void and is engulfed in darkness, hope that makes the concept clearer.

Calling any of that Skill is quite the reach.

can't really be anything else.

Did we read the same thing? It literally states that while Dante is fighting Mundus, the demon king is raining down countless sword blows, rains of demon arrows and bolts of lightning. Most of those fail to hit Dante because as he states:

yeah that seems about accurate, Dante stood in an endless void and dodged every move from the void itself, more or less equivalent to swimming through an ocean without getting wet.

Dante knows what Mundus can do and avoids most of his attacks. How is that any different from knowing your opponent dodging their attacks accordingly? You're making this out to be Dante being impossible to hit but in reality, its Dante knowing his opponent's attacks and dodging them. I thought this was going to be some Mori Jin level Skill but this is just...sad.

what? huh? you basically just talked here but didn't make a point, why is knowing what moves Mundus has, take away from dodging attacks from someone who cobtrols all the spawn locations of the attacks? that's like knowing that jumping in a volcano would burn you, so jumping into a volcano, being engulfed in magna and still not burning..is rendered unimpressive because you knew lava can burn things.

A problem that I think you'll find is that Dante, as a videogame character has horribly inconsistent feats. His videogame feats are honestly more in line with what you'd expect from a one-pointer. (Yes, I am aware there are DMCA feats in there, I just took some random ones from the credited RT, feel free to compare DMC1-5, LN and DMC Manga feats that are also on the RT to confirm its all around the same level) For reference, Tony is an alias used by Dante in the light novel.

Ah, now I get the mentality that was used for the one point placement of Dante, reading a RT on a site that doesn't even know how to dabble into complex concepts of a verse do not give you all the knowledge, not only are there consistently memeworthy with how much misunderstanding of character versions exist in these, but also none of the feats actually even function as a cap on power, speed or anything at all

there are multiple reasons he doesn't operate at the same lvl all the time, he literally let's attacks hit him because it's fun, he doesn't go all out because demon hunting would be boring if he did.

Dante just stood there, doing nothing. Sometimes he found it fun to let his enemies get a hit on him - to see what they were capable of, and to make things more interesting. Demon hunting could get real mechanic and boring if he just always went all out, after all." DF, Vol2 p.106

and again

“Don’t tell me this is already too much for you?” Dante wanted to wait and see what she’d reply if he gave her time to recover, but he quickly dismissed that thought. It seemed like she would go down with either the next hit or with a single shot of his gun - he was actually, a bit upset that it was already over DF, Vol2 p.112

Dante holds back so that fights don't get boring, he might fighting your Abigails for a longer period of time than Argosax, that doesn't mean Abigail>Argosax, why?

because Abigail doesn't make Dante lock in, and she doesn't make him try, she fights a guy who lets her land hits, she fights a guy who wants to have a long fight and struggle but Argosax makes Dante lock in, and that's why he dies in two pages without Dante knowing his name. You need to be Dante level for Dante to actually go all out and fight on his level, you need to be his level to make him lock in.

• Smacks away a fireball, destroying a T-Rex fossil

.Uh, DMC1 Dante uber casually slaps away a fireball

what is this meant to prove?

• Matches a giant monster in strength who was able to destroy a giant stone wall just by moving

so he just casually blocks a giant with one hand.

what does that prove?

• Is pushed back against a wall by a demon hard enough to split open the brick/stone wall, and was able to still hold up his sword with just one hand

he blocks a massive monster/demon with one hand, his holding back nature not only applies, but

they're also having a conversation.

• Smacks away a demon who launched itself hard enough to destroy a large advertising structure

Yeah, as the text you quotes says, he just smacked it away.

how is casually smacking away a demon even going to prove? posting random feats of no effort don't function as a cap.

• Creates a large explosion just by swinging his sword

I mean.

swinging your blade once and causing an explosion does not function as a cap at all.

• Stalemates a powerful demon, and completely overpowers it with the use of DT

  • The demon Abigail is able to strike a skyscraper hard enough to damage the entire building

Abigail and Dante stalemated yeah.

but not only does Dante's holding back nature applies considering Abigail is not demon emperor tier at all, Abigail also in the same show was doing feats so far beyond what's presented in the RT copypasta.

Iean, there's an actual feat of Dante getting his legs blown off and his bones and muscles being turned into unrecognizable paste by a shotgun of all things. This isn't something a "Star Level" character should be injured by.

Yeah it's bad, Because this isn't Dante properly even, and hell this isn't even a atar lvl variant, I reckon this version isn't even city block level, because this is actually Tony Redgrave and not Dante Sparda.

the narrative of this novel is Dante, after the death of his mom, locked away his devil name, which is the essence of demonic existence, and sealed away his heritage as well, and thus he was vulnerable and weak, he was a human mercenary with some supernatural powers slipping through due to who he was.

as the story continues, Dante gets a massive power boost when he remembers his original name and this boost allows him to summon Devil Sword Sparda and use more of his demonic powers, throughout the early DMC material chronologically Dante gets stronger as he realizes more of what he is and who he is, only reaching Demon Emperor tier in the endgame of the first Devil May Cry game chronologically. Tony Redgrave in this novel is just Dante without his demonic half, a Dante missing his "power" and half of his existence.

basically, what you're doing is using the death of Bruce Wayne's parents as proof adult Batman cannot handle a thug with a gun, you talked about context earlier, do you just not know vg vthe context on anything related to Devil May Cry or are internationally doing this to make your post look better?

Even Dante's speed feats are vastly inferior to what you're trying to push. There's even LN speed feats included that prove composite Dante isn't anywhere near the level of speed you're trying to claim:

Dante having feats spanning multiple tiers is not going to put a cap on his high end feats or strip the legitimacy from them, please try again.

• Reacts and shoots down severally sniper shots after they've been fired

Okay, Dante killed some humans in seconds who attacked him, what is that meant to prove?

• He dances around conjured swords, arrows, and "lightning"

this is literally just the Void Mundus feat, so what actually happens is Dante dodges all the attacks from the Demon God who became one with the Heart of the underworld.

• Running as fast possible, he's out sped by bullets

this doesn't even have any part in it talking about being outsped by bullets, It's Beryl's anti demonic energy rifle, aka magical gun, I also want to add the context that just a few lines under that Dante collapses from exhaustion because of his fight with beastheads and multiple sustained injuries, context context context.

• Saves a woman from an explosion

...

Dante effortlessly dodged the explosion and saved his friend, what are you trying to say.

• Dodges a shot from a tank

uhhh

how is him sidestepping an attack meant to prove anything?

• Dodges a missile from an attack helicopter

uhhhh

he flips over a rocket...what else is he supposed to do? there is no capping here either

• Avoids machine gunfire from an attack helicopter

Uhm

this doesn't prove anything either, he didn't even pay attention to the bullets, he just dodged and moved on.

• Saves a woman before an energy blast reaches her and avoids a large explosion twice

Oh Damn

he casually saved his friend from a energy blast, what a cap

• While in mid-air, blocks two bullets shot from a magnum

...

You...You do realize that Nero is stronger than a normal gun user right? lime these things are demonic energy being fired in bullet form, these aren't capping in any sense.

I understand there's no context to most of these feats but its a lot more consistent then what you've shown. You're going to have to show some better evidence to support Dante is operating at tournament's peak

consistency becomes a factor in case of contradiction, there is no contradiction here, not only is there intricate context explaining why exactly certain inconsistencies may exist

Bare in mind that this is just another in a long line of vague statement feats that don't much up to the actual character. Heck if you want to claim Dante being so impossibly skilled the an omnipresent universal character can't hit him (which is what you're trying to do) then why does Dante get hit so often?

because he literally enjoys being hit lol.

Dante just stood there, doing nothing. Sometimes he found it fun to let his enemies get a hit on him - to see what they were capable of, and to make things more interesting. Demon hunting could get real mechanic and boring if he just always went all out, after all." DF, Vol2 p.106

hope that explains your question, but I'm gonna go over your reddit links anyway.

• Is brought to near death after being attacked by a barrage of sharp rocks[LN1]

  • Dante was already weakened from fighting several stronger demons in succession

Great.

we're using a version who just is about to accept his demonic side and dig into it for the first time in the final act of the novel.

oh, and also happened to be weakened here.

• Sent reeling from an attack he describes is capable to "shatter bones"

Again, you might as well start using chapter 1 Luffy anti feats to cap Gear 5 Luffy with this type of shit.

• While boosted by being in Hell and wielding his Sparda, he survives being impaled twice and bombarded by small meteorites

  [DMC1]

Bro that's the fucking Demon Emperor attacking him with his full power

this isn't an anti feat, and this Dante isn't DMC2 lvl anyway, this Dante went life or death with base Mundus but won with roughly high difficulty, DMC2 Dante defeated Void Mundus with borderline no difficulty or about low difficulty, showing that Dante grew a lot.

• Is smashed into a brick wall, but is unfazed and shoots while being held down

Just because Dante did not feel like dodging attacks doesn't mean that he couldn't have dodged, both holding back, prolonging encounters and letting atgacks hit apply

• Is beaten by a very powerful demon and impaled multiple times, yet treats it as nothing

No. He literally just showed off his regeneration and yet again let attacks from the demon hit him so it could be fun and he doesn't suffer from the Satoru Gojo syndrome of being untouchable.

• Is punched multiple times in the head and survives

punched by Nero.

sure do wonder if the guy who holds back on demons would take his nephew seriously.

• Caught in a wave of fire that blows away dilapidated houses and worn down trees, but he doesn't care at all

but he doesn't care at all is the key word there.

• Caught in a large explosion and is unharmed[VoV]

again with this, he literally walked out and asked Urizen why he is so miserable and serious

how is him tanking an explosion and walking out to make a joke evidence of his incapability to dodge.

• Takes a blow that can destroy Rebellion[DMC5]

  • Although he's downed for a moment.

he tried clashing powers with Urizen and got one shotted, no anti feat here.

For someone who's supposedly so skilled that he never gets hit, he sure does get hit a lot.

he explicitly allows it to happen in most cases, and only two scans in all of the ones you posted even discusses a Dante who had the void Mundus feat anyway, one him no selling and cracking a joke and one him being overpowered in a clash of strength

Hopefully we're done with the vague inconsistencies and can move onto an actual debate.

I'm afraid my friend, that is entirely dependant on if you want to make more vague inconsistencies

Not bad. Too bad Mu can is completely unaffected by mind and soul attacks far exceeding anything you've show.

You're going to need a lot more than fodder control fear inducement to scare Mu. Especially when you consider he was completely unfazed by a star level mind/soul attack (Cloud Immortal Planet in my opener). Remember that was only at 5% of his mental capacity too.

Remember that the Cloud Immortal's Mental/soul attack eroded the souls of the Three Legged Crow's formation masters, people who specialize in using their minds and souls to control galactic ships several kilometers long.

Just the mere presence of a God General can cause fear based hallucinations that cause a mental breakdown:

Their mental breakdown is so strong it could kill at least 20 billion people.

And yet, Long Fei, Mu's Dragon Queen Soul Soldier is completely unaffected by their fear to the point she fights the group of God Generals while also protecting Three Legged Crow.

So a little fear isn't doing anything to mu..

This does not suffice as a counter simply because you ignored the part that made Dante's aura potent at the first place, the fact that it bypasses immunity to Fear hax, no resistance to any range of fear manipulation would suffice against against Dante's aura because it's fundamentally advanced beyond normal fear hax.

Resistance is dependant on magnitude, increase the magnitude of an ability and resistivity can be overwhelmed and negated.

comparably, Immunity is absolute and it cannot be overridden by any form of potency or magnitude behind an ability.

Dante's aura has affected things which should logically be immune to things like fear manipulation due to their very innate nature.

the fact that Dante's aura can negate immunity makes any level of resistance worthless because the ability is advanced beyond normal telepathy, you would've to counteract it considering the advancement and superior nature, shouldn't be THAT hard considering Shirso managed to pull it off in the last round, almost.

Can you provide a reference for how powerful this darkness is? I see it being used on a demon but no reference to how strong that demon is. Could this darkness have negated the power of beings like Savior, Mundus or any of the other high tier demons? That's the kind of scale you need to show before this can be considered a threat.

Mundus was indeed power nullfied by Dante so we know that Dante's power negation scales to atleast that level.

Also, power negation vs a 3D printer? Remember the way things work in Iron Ladies is through downloading weapon blueprints directing into the brain and then 3D printing them into a Battle Form. Could Sparda's Darkness negate a 3D printer from functioning?

I don't think that's necessary, he just can target and negate the actual moves, Dante is already resistant to most of Mu's arsenal, he can simply attack the actual black holes you keep talking about, negate them and call it a day

Been there, done that. Sub-atomic level attacks are nothing compared to Mu's quantum level regeneration..

i will simply argue it targets more than just the atoms then, considering that it oneshotted Gilver, and the death of a demon requires the destruction of it's demonc core, which contains soul, life and all that jazz.

Oh you mean like how Mu can interact with someone outside of space and time and exists on a higher dimension? I wonder how prediction would work on someone like that? I'm guessing not so well unless you have higher dimension analytical prediction powers.

daaaaamn, Void Mundus is also stated to be disconnected from the flow of time and Dante interacted with him just fine, the main advantage of prediction over precognition is that prediction is done and based on skill, and thus existential status is not enough to bypass prediction.

Not that it will help since the one speed feat you posted is either vastly inferior to what you're claiming or vastly over the limits..

you've no authority to speak on the speed argument lol.

Hmm another reference to Dante beating Mundus (the guy who created a universe). I'm so glad we're using universal feats here lol.

mentioning Mundus over and over again won't make your absolutist idea about his feat correct I'm afraid.

Anything, Mind and Soul attacks don't do anything to Mu. I've already shown star level (you know, the actual tournament limit) mind and soul resistance, mind resistance that can no sell a mental attack strong enough to kill at least 20 billion people. Here's some more mental and soul resistance feats to put that to rest:

Divine Goddess Corpse casts a mental/spiritual controlling attack across the galaxy (its done through communication satellites so the range isn't actually galactic or anything like that) controlling several planet's worth of people and even forcing them to kill themselves and their families in sacrifice to her.

Mu and his soul soldiers are completely unfazed.

Then the Divine Silk Goddess casts a similar mental/soul attack that is more than a hundred times stronger than the Divine Goddess Corpses attack and again Mu is completely unaffected.

So yeah, mind and soul attacks aren't doing jack poop to Mu..

There is more to it though? the souls in Devil May Cry due to soul physiology also happen to contain powers, same way Dante due to having shards of Sparda's soul has sparda's powers and talent within him.

same way demons try to absorb souls to gain power and abilities, your power and potential is a part of your soul in Devil May Cry, that's why so many times people have attempted to absorb Dante's soul, to gain the same powers he has.

Basic soul resistance isn't going to cut it either when I'm arguing Dante can absorb and replicate powers.

Isn't that Beryl and Chen doing that? What's that have to do with Dante? Also, what's the timeframe for these adaptions? How do they help when Dante is already dead in one hit?

if Mu could oneshot Dante than sure but I'm not seeing anything even close to oneshotting Dante so I'm not worried about that, another example on how fast these guys adapt, they can adapt to a deadly illusion before the illusion can kill them, meaning the adaptation is indeed combat appliciable.

Which means he can seal the Universal Mundus??? I'll just let that sink in.

you're allowed to let the Mundus point go, you're wasting both of our time with this.

Anyway, how does the sealing work? All it says he is sealed it, no description on how or how long it took. How do we know this is even Battle t applicable? Definitely needs more explanation.

Devil May Cry IV fortuna novel explains to us that Mundus was sealed away in a weird spot between demon world and human world, he had no chance of returning and nobody could reach him even though the verse has countless people who manage to bypass dimensional seals and such.

Intangibility is no problem, Mu's grabbed literally nothingness before.

has his black hole?

Is that a wiki screen shot? Do you have the actual source material?

.....

Devil May Cry Official Artworks/Artbook, page number 190

Anyway, that screen shot straight up says its Vergil using King Cerebus, not Dante.

but...he literally...has it in the game.

Besides, Mu regularly fights in space, in areas completely devoid of stars. Cold temps aren't doing much to him

Fighting in space, in your eyes, allow for resistance to sub Absolute zero?

I've been waiting for this one. First, why are you treating Yamato like its standard equipment for Dante??? Yamato was only in Dante's possession for a brief time during the entirety of the DMC series. Since you posted a wiki screenshot earlier, I'll do the same and save myself some typing:

So if Yamato is currently with Vergil and Dante himself left it to Nero, why are you using it with Dante here? Its clearly not standard equipment for Dante and without the non-standard equipment perk, you can't use it.

Rebellion is Dante's sword. That's his standard equipment as stated on the official Devil May Cry website, by Capcom.

I had predicted this argument would be made someone in the tournament, and Obviously the counter to this is pretty simple, Yamato is sparda inheritance, and it always appears to those with Sparda's soul (Dante/Vergil) if they need it, Ie they can straight up summon it, and it's not like a magical move that requires knowledge, the brothers, as kids, can subconsciously summon Yamato.

not to mention, Dante canonically had Yamato for massive amounts of time and he can also summon it whenever he wants, same way he can summon Rebellion whenever he wants as well.

Yamato is not special gear for any of the three (Vergil, Nero and Dante), they can get it whenever they want.

Aside from that, do you have anything showing Yamato works on non-demon/devil entities? Its pretty heavily implied to "Separate Man from Devil" but could it separate say, Aizen from the Hogyoku or Gerard from The Miracle?

It's basic existence slicing, Vergil used it on himself and then became V and Urizen, fundamentally splitting who he was into two different people, that's textbook existence cutting, but if you want to take it that way, Yamato is also stated to split power from heart, again, fundamentally turning one person into two other people.

so even with the bottom rung interpretation, at the minimum Yamato would cut away power if it lands.

The entire thing also assuming you'll ever get the chance to use Yamato, which based on your single pretty debunked speed feat

lol

So its a space cut. Cool. Vajra Sarira negates Hyperspace and space destruction, a few space cuts aren't doing anything here. Mu and Ding being obliterated by space destruction but then undoing the destruction with the Vajra Sarira, completely integrating Mu with space, essentially sealing all space powers.

Oh and for reference, the space law of the Divine Silk Goddess was gifted to her by the universe itself, so it doesn't get much better than that, expect the Vajra Sarira of course :)

Surviving The Space cut is impressive, obviously, but spatial Manipulation would've two facets, Nature and Potency, Potency I've already showed to be extremely high due to seprating the demon world from the human world but even by nature, demonic energy can warp and affect space, even on the lowest level.

demonic energy even on basest level can manipulate space on countless ways, remember how the human world being transformed into the demon world was an event that made the spacetime of the human world go into a state of continous loop? my point is, space manipulation is a very lowly application of demonic energy, and demons entirely ignore space hax a lot of times (looping) and yet Judgement cut shreds powerful demons.

my point is, Judgement cut is a level above normal space hax, you've to match it is you want to argue resistivity to it.

This is a VERY VERY big reach. You're making an assumption based on pieces of lore spread across the entire series. An assumption that contradicted direct feats shown in the series. The range of Judgement Cut has been shown several times in the gifs of VERGIL using Yamato. To claim otherwise would require actual on panel visual evidence..

This is just a straight up non argument, if you don't like me connecting Yamato and it's power to the inferior Pluto's spear to add in consistency to what Dante said Yamato can do, then that's fine, I will simply assume you don't like narratival consistency, but Dante straight up told us what the Yamato did during Sparda's "rebellion" against Mundus.

This is not going away, and the range it would entail for Yamato's maximum wouldn't go away either, and frankly your argument regarding Vergil showing us the limit of judgement cut is just ridiculous, you don't do dimension razing attacks to deal with human sized enemies, Dante showed us how easily you can increase the range of Yamato against Saviour.

Why does Yamato's slicing scale from Rebellion? Sure Yamato and Rebellion were both created by Sparda but why would Yamato get Rebellion's slicing feats? They're two different weapons..

The general narrative behind the weapons, not only is Yamato consistently portrayed as far more powerful than rebellion, Yamato is the one used for most of the cutting purposes, while rebellion has the power to fuse and reunite, Rebellion being above Yamato in cutting and severing would be nonsensical due to their narratives.

Where is the power and energy slicing coming from? I see Yamato in knife form being used to separate man from devil (another reference to Yamato's man/devil limitation) but nothing about power and energy. Anyway, Mu's comically immune to soul and mind manipulation so that's out.

refer back to the explaination I gave on souls at the opener, DMC souls contain the energy that creates someone and their power as well.

Where does it say anything about existence slicing? From what I just read that yet another case of man being separated from devil.

that...is existence slicing? Vergil was the existence, and that existence was cut into V and Urizen, one existence being split to create two.

That was Nero being physically stabbed with Yamato in the arm. Do you have any proof that Judgement cut does the same aside from assumption?

You think judgement cut mechanically alters the functioning of Yamato by simply increasing its range? because that's never implied, judgement cut has always just been an extension of Yamato's targetting

Also, from your video, it was Nero's devil arm that was negated, again separating man from devil.

Don't try to line up these instances bruh, one was Nero being stabbed and losing a specific resistance and other is Vergil literally ceasing to exist and becoming two people.

Like Nero is literally missing that arm in DMC5 so wasn't the negation limited to just his arm?

...

if the negation was just limited to the hand, than the entire body of Nero would not get absorbed by the Saviour while being resistant previously.

Proof Yamato's Judgement Cut can be scaled to an entirely different weapon used by an entirely different person? Doesn't matter anyway as Mu's mental resistance to so damn high it won't do anything.

Think I already did the first part anyway.

Mind resistance, to bypass this would require proving Judgement Cut has Yamato's resistance negation and even then, I've already shown Mu's power negation resistance.

you ARE aware that there must have been a reason i posted Vergil affecting his own memories first? you will learn why I posted that instance later in the post.

So that's universal sealing then huh? Good to know. ANYWAY,

...what? WOT?

somehow you read Yamato sealing away Tree of Qipiloth, which is SUPERIOR to demon world as it is the governing force of the demon world, as somehow it being universal in size?

if we keep it within the tourney limits, Mu's already shown star level resistance to this so that's that.

I...was talking about sealing up the prison you made for Dante and not Mu.

Forgive me for going on a bit of a rant but could you please try to stay consistent with your scaling. You've openly stated that Mundus and Argosax were equals. You've also stated that Mundus created a universe. And now you're stated that Argosax was warping an entire cosmology into darkness. With you yourself stating so many times that Mundus and Argosax are at such high levels, how are we supposed to believe you when you then turn around and contradict yourself by saying:

Apology granted, but I think you can be more liberal with your thinking and not just automatically subscribe into whatever line of thinking is more likely to be incriminating against me, Mundus I've explained in detail that there are multiple interpretations of that scene, and Argosax? Argosax is pure hax, Mundus and Argosax are the same in power and Void Mundus is even superior but it's Argosax at the end of the day that has all the hax of demons and passively returns everything to its primordial state, Argosax IS seemingly a reset button for the verse, however his power doesn't scale from his passive hax from what I've argued, there is no reason to assume that it does, considering stronger characters can't pull off what Argosax does passively.

It really looks like your cherry picking the lore to fit to the tournament's limits. Either be straight and say Mundus/Argosax are universal and thus cannot be used for scaling and such, or show that they really are only STAR level. I imagine this will be difficult considering you literally posted Mundus creating a universe but I have faith in you.

often the tier of characters is a subject of debate and open to interpretations from all angles, the same goes here, with Mundus, with Argosax and with everyone, with certain standards and assumptions they can indeed be argued way too high but when those interpretations aren't set in stone and are not at all absolute, we're not forced to adhere to the max interp.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm going to continue this debate under the assumption that everything you've stated about universal and cosmologies was hyperbole and they are in fact only star level. Bare in mind that this is not me accepting them at that level, that burden of proof is still on you. I'm just working under that assumption temporarily so I don't delay the tournament.

that acceptance would certainly save us both a lot of time, Yes.

Not a single modern weapon capable of killing a demon. I guess the van splattering bunch of demons and these random soldiers gunning down a bunch of demons is the exception to that statement. There a couple demons burning to death from a car explosion too. Hell Nico literally burns a demon with a lit cigarette lol!

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The key word in the whole nuclear weapon heat thing is MOMENTARILY. Its a flash that's over in a less than a second. A flash won't melt anything. Melting point is a sustained heat. A mini-second flash of 100,000,000 isn't melting Dead Gold. Do you have any proof that Dante's fire power reach these temperatures?

So I'm guessing that statement is more hyperbole than anything else.

.regarding the momentarily argument, I said Barrage for a reason, from the wording the demon straight won't be AFFECTED by anything humanity has and the soldiers would just straight up die, it's their physiology that makes them resistant to all threats humanity could present them with, because actual death is irrelevant if they can just destroy it to point of no return, this is for lesser demons.

ofcourse, now there are types to lesser demons, and ranking between them as well, but I will address this argument taking all lesser demons as the same.

frankly, demons cannot manifest in the human world, there is a seal between the worlds due to Sparda and that seal stops demons from physically travelling, so what do they do?

they project their consciousness through the worlds, and these consciousnesses and spirits go to the other world, take over things and wallah, you got yourself a demon.

more or less, lesser demons can't form into the world with their true forms, they form through avatars when their consciouness is projected in and these avatars are the ones destroyed, frankly you cannot scale any anti feats of demons in this form to their true forms, consistently a demon manifesting in the human world in its original form is a big deal, normally its just them projecting their consciousness into the world and using Marionettes, sand and such things as vessels, which makes them suspectible to humanity's abilities.

basically, demons come to human world via avatars, not in their true forms, and when their true forms arrive, all hell breaks lose.

And how does that help Dante? Can you prove he can freeze stuff as well as King Cerberus?

Frost (the demon with below absolute zero) cannot do anything to Nero who Dante directly scales from, and King Cerebrus item in game 5 cannot freeze demons at all.

And why should Yamato's space cutting work under the effect of the Vajra Sarira when even the space law granted by the universe cannot? Not to say Vajra Sarira is universal as it clearly isn't, it just operated on a much higher scale then mere your average space manipulation..

it has a level of power behind it in addition to it scaling over levels of spatial manipulation and yes, space cracking as well.

You mean the aura that was absorbing the entire cosmology??? Eh, something tells me that's not applicable in this tournament.

putting words in my mouth again, His existence was transforming the world back to it's original state because Argosax is a strange existence, nothing more, nothing less.

Besides a star level aura would be dealing CONSTANT star level damage to Dante. If he really is at the tournament's limit, then this aura would push Dante's durability to the absolute limit and a single additional attack should be enough kill him..

Dante can minimize the damage done to him by absorbing the damage to use a counterattack, via Royal Guard.

Gallery

and attacks that should be lethal have bounced off Dante before because of royal guard.

Cutting with what exactly? Vergil's weapon that you're stealing?

cute.

Except you're not. It doesn't say it cuts existence. It separates man from devil. That's what it says. Mu isn't devil, hell its not even a demon. Demons to do exist in Iron Ladies and Mu already painted it across the atmosphere. So if anything Yamato would work on the Demon but what's it going to do to someone without demonic energy?

I mean, it's nothing about demonic energy, Vergil simply felt like he had two mindsets so he cut himself in two, his human part and his demon part are paets of the same being, Vergil. these divisions were made externally in a precise manner via Yamato, Vergil's one existence was cut in two.

this was one existence (Vergil)

and it was cut into two existences (Urizen and V)

how tf does it get more blatant than that?

Also cutting Mu in half, really? You think that's going to do anything to the guy who's regenerated from quantum destruction?

cut the existence in two bruh, also a judgement cut on top would seprate the spacetime mu exists in and it would shatter like glass, hard to regen there.

That's funny because here's Dante falling to his kne

es when he grabs the Haywire Neo-Generator as his soul is drained.

I guess that universal soul resistance isn't all its cracked up to be.

Yap, Yap and Yap.

let's discuss the context of this, should we? actually, let me just show you the full name of DMC3 for reference.

Devil May Cry III: Dante's Awakening,as the name would suggest, Dante in this game goes through awakening and throughout the game grows far stronger and gains new abilities and transformations, it's a game of growth.

DMC3 is a prequel to DMC1 and DMC3 Dante is eons beneath Mundus, same thing as using KCM1 Naruto stuff to downplay SOSP Naruto rlly, DMC3 Dante won't even clear Mundus's generals and we're talking about...a Dante that blitzed and oneshotted Argosax?

Hilarious, really.

Seriously? You're going to try and pull that? Fine, here's a few feats clearly showing Dante is effected by gravity.

• Jumps up and down
• More jumping and falling down
• More jumping
• Jumping over bullets
• Jumps off a tower and falls down

And no, Dante isn't following the laws because they're convenient for him.

don't know what you're so awed by, Dante and demons in general come from a woeld with different sets of law and a different method of reality playing out than the human world, and thus they're able to ignore the laws because these laws are nt naturally for them at the first place.

in all your scans, you use instances of him intentionally...jumping.

how is one meant to jump while ignoring any form of gravity?

He's effected by gravity just fine. A black hole to his head will kill him and no matter of twisting vague statements will save him from that.

there is no vagueness to the statement, it just says demons do not follow the laws of the world, gravity is one of them, and it gets consistent with gravity and other laws like time and space functioning completely differently in demon world than in human world.

.

And how does that apply to Dante? What's significance does that hold to prevent Mu from controlling space?

he can ignore spatial hax and phenomenons to a level like with Argosax and any offensive utilization of space hax against him would...uh, fail.

Or Dante gets squashed before he can react since the one speed feat you posted for him was debunked

misunderstanding is the origin of all false perceptions, same with your perception of my speed feat being debunked.

and is largely inconsistent with the dozen of speed feats showing him as vastly slower.

casual speed feats done by a character known to play around.when not threatened or challenged at all? Yeah Right, they're definitely going to function as a capping point

Based on scaling to Savior's teleportation pad right? Now prove that Savior created those dimensional spaces or better yet, show someone actually at planetary level or above. I'll wait.

your teleportation pad explaination works...until it stops working, and it stops working when you consider the realms have to be created as they're recreations, and there is only one logical source they can be created from, the one character in the verse bar the protagonist who has any kind of a connection to the heavens.

Where does it say demon are immune to Assimilation? Also didn't you literally say, Ebony and Ivory break stuff down at the molecular level? If demons are immune to molecule destruction, why do Dante's guns work on them then?

It's implied Duncan would not be affected by beastheads if he were a demon and not a human

and regarding your bullet points, the sub atomic deconstructing Ebony and Ivory don't work on anyone on Dante's lvl either, throughout DMC3 (which is after Light Novel with Gilver) many enemies take the bullets without disintegrating, Dante would take his own bullet or one from Vergil just fine I reckon.

You mean the demons that get killed from road rage and bullets?

you mean the demons that can't actually appear in human world in their true forms? yeah

And your scan doesn't say anything about Devil Trigger making you immune to abilities. I think you may have used the wrong scan. Its talking about a monster jumping on you so transform into Devil Trigger to break free.

huh maybe, I will just post the scans and argument if that's a problem, also I was arguing Devil Trigger adapts to abilities and enhances resistances to be clear cut, here is an example, Nelo Angelo with a slight powerup negated the whole space freeze thing, this with the scan I posted which really was about gaining resistance to a monster's hax which involves vitality draining, fusionism and biological controlling, that's the hax that Lucia's DT instantly made her resistant too.

I'd say the same but I'm honestly just disappointed. I went into this because I thought Dante would be a good opponent. Instead I get a mix match of statements, lore and vague feats stitched together into a crowd pleasing but ultimately false story.

when your attempt at countering the supposed false story comes from misinterpreting the most basic concepts of a verse, not understanding most of the feats and downright using incorrect iteration of the characters to cap more powerful iterations, I don't think you've the right to judge my part in the debate. I thought I would have a mountain to climb but in actuality I'm explaining the most basic concepts of debating such as continuity, limits and te importance of context, it's dissapointing really.

There were so many inconsistencies from Dante's overall power being scaling to a vague teleportation/pocket dimension battlefield to beating Mundus after he created a universe.

thought you said in the last post you were going to take the Mundus thing as a literary hyperbole from my end from now on?

The speed argument is even worse, abusing a gif that didn't show the main points of the feat and then claiming stars in the background equal crossing light-years of distance when its just perception of the background.

L-Lightyears??? What, No...WHAT? I said 0.72 Astronomical units, 1 Lightyear is LITERALLY 63,241 Austronomical units, at no point did you even get close to understanding the speed feat, and a counterargument cannot be built off of a misunderstanding, so if anything, you've not countered the speed argument AT ALL.

The scaling from Mundus and Argosax is even worse with statements and feats of them clearly at the universal level and then Dante defeating them. Then attempting to claim they are only at the tournament's level when Nameless himself, showcased them as otherwise.

as I've explained, Argosax and Mundus's feats are not necessarily universal and it's not necessary for me to subscribe into the one interpretation that makes them that strong when their are alternative interpretations, most characters in the list if you look hard enough for you will find an argument of them exceeding the limits, the argument would not be the default argument one must refer to when discussing the characters however.

This entire match was one huge disappointment but I promised a full power Mu Siyun so I shall deliver as much despite Dante's lack of deserving such treatment.

as I said earlier, I expected to go all out here but surprise surprise, it seems like I won't be going all out at all, as I don't feel the need to.

There's nothing clear about that. You posted Dante stepping onto a teleporter pad, being warping to another location or pocket dimension and then claimed Savior created these places. You didn't actually show Savior making them or give us anything to show Savior actually made them. All we have is your word, which based on the other claims you've made, simply isn't good enough.

looking at it from a logical perspective, the worlds are recreations of locations, only Saviour is related to them, if they are recreations then they're created by a source, only two logical sources can exist, the cosmology or the saviour, the cosmology doesn't make recreations of the same locations, there is literally only one logical interpretation and zero scope of deviation from it.

Based on a VSB calculation of all things. That alone should have told you this was wrong. Your gif didn't show what actually happened and when you explained it, you left out important context that changed the feat into something it wasn't.

There is no such context.

Dante flew through an unknown distance of Mundus' dimensional space. The MFTL speed scaling is immediately debunked in that very same fight where Dante gets hit by lightning and meteors, both of which a true MFTL character should never be struck by. Not to mention the plethora of anti-feats show Dante at a VASTLY inferior speed..

"unknown distance" when I laid a method for the sake of quantification? lol, rather than attacking the method you started acting some non-represented interpretation of the feat. Being hit by lightning and meteors summoned and used as attacks by Mundus with us having zero reference of their speed bar scaling to Mundus's attack speed? yeah, that's not a problem. And your list of "antifeats" which include things like Dante being tagged by Mundus's attacks? yeah, fried.

Except that entire match made absolutely no mention of skill. You added that. It was Dante knowing what Mundus was capable of.

I can jump into a ocean or lava, knowing I would be burnt by the latter, that doesn't mean if I'm engulfed into it, I won't be burnt, as I've said, Dante's feat is the equivalent of being engulfed into something but not being effected by it.

Which Mu is resistant to. Add in the nature of Iron Ladies 3D printing and power null is useless.

use the nullification on the abilities and blackholes rather than using them on Mu himself and it works perfectly fine.

Are you talking about the Devil Trigger? You have the wrong scan. All that scan explained was using the Devil Trigger transformation to break free of a monster.

it talks about devil trigger enhancing your resistance from barely resistance to being borderline immune, which is textbook enhancement of resistance.

Useless against Mu.

Discussioned before

See Power Null above

the application of this was discussed before as well

Over an unknown amount of time.

it happened while fighting Mundus and his armies, so however fast it was, Mundus wasn't granted the time to escape, so it should scale to their combat speed

Requires supporting scans to scale this

Base King Cerebrus was absolute zero as I posted, Frost, a low class fodder demon goes below absolute zero, Dante using King Cerebrus being below frost would make no sense as one is a borderline no name fodder type of demon and one is the strongest in history.

Debunked by demons getting burned by a cigarette and car explosions.

countered by explaining the concept of demonic avatars.

Useless against Mu

they ignore deconstruction resistance given Demons don't seem affected by the Beastheads Assimilation process.

This entire section is contingent on you using a non-standard weapon for Dante.Let be clear here. Yamato isn't Dante's weapon. Dante's weapon is Rebellion. Yamato belongs to Vergil. When Dante did have Yamato, it was only briefly and he left it to Nero, willingly giving up the weapon.

as I've already shown, it's the equipment of Sparda, Vergil and Dante, as all of them can summon it even subconsciously, as much as the want to have something as vague as power grants a sparda descendant the ability to summon Yamato, it can be summoned same way Dante casually summons rebellion

Aside from all, I've thoroughly countered every ability of Yamato. Its hyped up a lot but when you actually look at the feats and context, its not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

your counters to Yamato are of wavering quality, fulls of ups and downs, I'm afraid the existence slash mechanic and the memory materializing mechanic was not countered at all.

He could do the same thing to any member of your team. The soul resistance you've provided for Dante is entirely reliant on scaling to Argosax's cosmology warp which is a universal feat. Without that, Dante is left with a vastly inferior soul defense, one that was even damaged by the Haywire Neo-Generator draining his soul.

for the last time, Argosax is a strange existence with a phenomenon unique to him that turns every soul into a demon atleast in the human world, and Dante was unaffected by his soul hax, thus granting him a level of soul hax resistance that's extremely high and at the limits of the tournament.

your Haywire Neo-Generator argument doesn't take into account about it being DMC3 Dante, eons beneath DMC1 Dante who is far beneath DMC2 Dante because DMC3 is a prequel game revolving all around Dante growing in power and gaining DT, should've known that.

None of your other team players have the soul resistance needed to defend themselves against Mu's possession (since you didn't bother to post about them). Possession mind you, that can be done against Rank #1 Battle Puppets, which are on par with Heaven Tier Angels (Heaven Tier Angels like the Immortal Godmother are star level). That's Star Level Possession right there.

Dante has the soul resistance, so I'm not worried about him at all, no to mention just about any demon is capable of possession and when possessing something they reconstruct bodies for themselves but Dante perma kills demons all the time, regardless Dante can also just destroy the soul and body at once via good old overpowering and call it a day, like how he permanently killed Void Mundus.

or to keep it more simple, just do the existence cut in two.

In short, unless you somehow manage to kill all seven of Mu's clones at the exact same time, he'll just keep resurrecting himself or possessing your team.

Your team will be faced with all of the following happening at the exact same time:

• Black Hole Spam
• White Dwarf Star Bomb Spam
• Sonic Resonance upgraded to Star Level
• Death Qi with its Star destroying Aura
• Molecular Destruction
• Physical Star Level Attacks
• Energy Blasts at Star Level

There is no character in this tournament that can survive a bombardment of so many Star Level attacks without significant regeneration, something Dante does not possess. Even if you take out all the hax, its still multiple star level attacks hitting you at once. That's not to mention Mu's powerful Mind and Soul attacks, his control over space or his ability to spam the Dead Gold Prison with any of his clones

so this is your offensive tactic? making 7 perfect clones and overwhelming me with continous star level damage from all angles, but sadly, I've the defense for this I'm afraid, Royal Guard.

Royal Guard is a form of defense that allows Dante to minimize damage that he takes, down to a level where offense against him becomes meaningless.

it allows Dante to no sell attacks and rather than sustain the damsge, he absorbs it, characters in game do zero damage and literally just bounce off.

and then he can release the power toward you, your own strength.

So in other words, I've the ability to minimize all the damage you do and absorb most of it and turn it all back at you, and thus your offensive capabilities more or less amount to nothing.

as I showed earlier, Royal guard allows Dante to no sell attacks that should mutilate him.

and Yes! Royal Guard works on hax as well, as Vergil's Yamato which does space damage and such even as early as DMCIII? it's rendered worthless against Royal Guard.

and now that royal guard is out of the way, do you know that Dante can make clones? he did in Devil May Cry III, clones with absolutely equal power to him and as well as the same equipment.

so yeah, that's that, clones to counter clones, royal guard to negate any spatial ability or any damage accumulation arguments and just soul based attacks to destroy the body and soul together to negate any sort of ressurection and I know that you will argue soul resistance, but I'm not talking about haxxing the soul, I'm talking about destroying the soul, Mundus withstood and stalemated Argosax who has soul hax on atleast star level given away by my quantification of human world, Dante can't soul hax Mundus, he can destroy the soul.

so Yeah, that seems to work.