Team Witcher vs Team Warhammer

Team Witcher: Geralt of Rivia/Emiel Regis/Dettlaff van der Eretein/Vilgefortz of Roggeveen/Yennefer of Vergenberg/Letho of Gulet

VS

Team Warhammer: Calard of Garamont/Tancred II of Quenelles/Balthasar Gelt/Thyrus Gormann/Red Duke/Countess Gabriella

Gallery

Rules

• In character
• No infighting
• Standard gear
  • No mounts
• SoC Warhammer continuity
• Sane Duke
• Magic equalized
• To the death
• Location: Tel Fyr

Rounds

1. No prep, No knowledge
2. 1 hour of prep, basic knowledge

@firefly489: As ever, I won't pretend for even half a second that I have any notable knowledge of the Witcher; it's entirely limited to having seen some cutscenes and some fights, and what people have shown on comicvine. However I do feel inclined to favour team warhammer. I could potentially see Countess Gabriella just outright being the weakest here; both in King and Long novels she was unimpressive both as a fighter and as a mage; she's entirely based around the manipulative nature of vampires. She's still not going to be cannon fodder (especially since she adds one more mage to the team), but she will be overwhelmed by anyone on team witcher.

However I feel like Gabriella gets carried by the fact that she has an extremely solid team. The Red Duke is in terms of physicals a good match for the vampires of the witcher team; but ontop of that he has far greater abilities as a mage and necromancer, and from what I've seen, he also is a lot more skilled as a duelist.

The focused mage-duel is going to be a rough one with Gelt and Thyrus vs Vilgefortz and Yennefer. I think that arguments could be made for either side, though personally I might favour Gelt because I think that Gelt/Thyrus would be more familiar with the spells the witcher team uses than they would be with Gelt's inventive and cunning metal magic

And what really makes me favour team warhammer are the "human" fighters. Calard and Tancred instantly throw a wrench in the witcher team by both being naturally tough to deal with by magical means, and by hard-countering vampires. But I also think that the two operate at a higher level than Geralt and Letho. Calard outright speed-blitzing a whole group of vampire lords as well as Merovech is insane, and Tancred beating both Krell and Kemmler is a super-powerful feat too. I think that it's entirely possible that Geralt and Letho can hold their own for a while, but I can't see them winning.

Feel like the Warhammer team should win this.

Team warhammer stomps, high tiers or highish tiers in WH are more than a match for the Witcherverse. Calard and Tancred II suggest they should and certainly could solo by themselves. It might be hard, but honestly the rest or no one here isn't showcasing that they can take on Calard and Tancred II besides maybe Yen simply because shes not affected by the "holy" power of the two knights

@cheth: I couldn’t have said it better my self. I think that the grail knight aura and physical might can actually be to much to deal with.

@firefly489 I know next to nothing about these particular Warhammer characters.

Keep in mind that vampires in Witcher are not your typical dead creatures raised by necromancy. They are their own species.

The same Krell who supposedly gained the upper hand over SIGMAR (the guy who held his own against NAGASH) aided by a bunch of supposedly strong allies, while weakened? The same Krell who got stalemated/driven back by Gotrek?

Is it just me or Krell's feats are all over the place?

Why would Yen specifically be unaffected by the holy aura of the Bretonnias? In fact, why would anyone on team Witcher be affected by it?

If you think Yen has the potential to take on Calard and Tancred, what about Vilgefortz, someone who mopped the floor with Yen? Or Geralt, someone who defeated Eredin, who in turn scales above Vilgefortz?

@the_wspanialy:

The same Krell who supposedly gained the upper hand over SIGMAR (the guy who held his own against NAGASH) aided by a bunch of supposedly strong allies,while weakened? The same Krell who got stalemated/driven back by Gotrek?

Sigmar had the Crown of Sorcery when he fought Nagash, and Tancred is a walking undead kryptonite. I also couldn't personally find anything about Tancred fighting them 1v2 (if anything, it seems like Kemmler lost an army vs army battle and fled).

@the_wspanialy:

Why would Yen specifically be unaffected by the holy aura of the Bretonnias? In fact, why wouldanyoneon team Witcher be affected by it?

Because Yen isn't a vampire last I checked? That's the actual argument and that is why the vampires would be affected on the witcher side....

If you think Yen has the potential to take on Calard and Tancred, what about Vilgefortz, someone who mopped the floor with Yen? Or Geralt, someone who defeated Eredin, who in turn scales above Vilgefortz?

I don't think she can take them on, I said she is the only one who isn't gonna be affected by their holy power, but that's me answering quickly and not thoroughly. No one here matters though, and either Grail Knight should do just fine

geralt and yennefer and vilgefortz by themselves would already have the upper hand, the rest on witcher team wouldnt be as useful or needed much

@the_wspanialy: Tancred II is the Duke of Quellenes and one of the greatest grail knights of bretonnia, in other words an absolute beast. Tancred killing Krell (he came back as undead do) is even directly mentioned in the same novel Gotrek nearly dies to him. Honestly, in SOC continuity, Krell seems to pretty consistently operate on the higher levels of champions of order (in addition to Tancred/Sigmar/Gotrek he's also supposed to be one of the greatest foes in the great book of grudges even before turning undead, and it took a high king to finally take him down).

Didn't mean to imply he fought them 2v1, although it seems pretty possible he faced them down in the same battle (unusual for Krell and Kemmler to split up). He did however "kill" both in battle, although kemmler has ways to cheat death and krell just comes back

Also you're thinking of Duc Tancred at the battle of La Maisontaal, aka Tancred II's father. Kemmler didn't necessarily flee either, as the thing he was fighting for was gone so he just bailed, and later did kill Tancred I which is why Tancred II went after him

@cheth:

Tancred killing Krell (he came back as undead do) is even directly mentioned in the same novel Gotrek nearly dies to him

Do you have the quote? Cause I can't find anything about him dying in a duel.

Also you're thinking of Duc Tancred at the battle of La Maisontaal, aka Tancred II's father. Kemmler didn't necessarily flee either, as the thing he was fighting for was gone so he just bailed, and later did kill Tancred I which is why Tancred II went after him

Oof, my mistake

I know that. Still, Nagash should be a stomp gap above Krell, no?

...

Neither are Geralt, Vilgefortz, and Letho, so why are you singling out Yen? It makes no sense. And Warhammer vampires ≠ Witcher vampires. Regis and Dettlaff are not undead. Why would the aura work on them?

If you say so...

You mean Zombieslayer? Gotrek and Krell had several fights in that book, and with the exception of that one time when he was weakened by poison, Gotrek held the upper hand in every single one of them.

Based on what I've read in Zombieslayer and what you told me about Krell vs Sigmar:

Gotrek > Krell >> weakened Krell > Sigmar and his team.

Needless to say, I find it difficult to believe. And considering Tancred's anti-undead aura, his victory over Krell doesn't sound that impressive.

So once again; Krell's feats seem all over the place.

No duel explicitly mentioned, but:

Though I had heard he was dead, killed by Duke Tancred in Bretonnia."

Well even with his advantages against undead, I'd argue that killing someone who holds his own against Gotrek and was beating Sigmar and team is a pretty amazing feat. And while I agree that potentially one could argue that Graham Mcneill (legend of sigmar author) holds Krell as stronger than Nathan Long (author of zombieslayer) does, Krell being killed by Tancred is part of Zombieslayer, so either way he beat the version of Krell that was a threat to Gotrek

Also regarding Nagash vs Krell: Nagash is obviously more powerful yeah, but Sigmar explicitly needed the crown to distract him long enough to get a decisive blow with ghal maraz, at which point it's "powerful wizard gets hit by really powerful hammer" vs former champion of khorne and current champion of Nagash doesn't go down that easily. Not to mention that Nagash was weakened from not having his crown

R1 it's Warhammers win.

R2 with 1 hour prep? Good question, if we assume that the GK anti-undead factor isn't applicable.

It feels as if Balthasar and Gabriella will have to carry that, compared to the Witcher crew that got a (seemingly) much stronger prep group. I'm not factoring in potential anti-magic gear and enchants in favour of Warhammer.

Worth noting that RD is a tactical and strategic mastermind, so might also be good for prep

The Warhammer team wins this in my opinion.

I also can’t see Geralt gaining the “upper hand“ as mentioned earlier. Grail Knight Calard alone would likely wipe the floor with Geralt.

@cheth:

Fair enough, but isn't it mostly against his bread and butter? It feels as if it's not much when it comes to blatant X-factors, if you know what i mean.