Nice matchup. Toji and Maki may have greater physical strength, but the Hashira duo are considerably faster, possess superior ranged attacks, and are undoubtedly more skilled.
With access to transparent World and the Red Blade, I'd wager on the Hashira to win with high diff.
A damn close fight, on account of their comparable physicals, enhanced perception and dominance as close-quarters fighters.
But between the Hashiras' edge in martial prowess and the JJK duo's edges in versatility, durability negation to counter the Hashiras' great endurance (via Maki and Toji's respective soul-striking weapons), and Toji's superior tactical abilities to capitalize on those edges, I'm inclined to favor the Heavenly Restricted duo more often than not after a great fight.
I dont know. Rengoku is many times weaker than the two used here and he hit akaza so hard to send him flying through a forest and through several trees with noticeable explosions from the impact force as seen from the overview of the forest. Thats pretty well above throwing a 1/2 ton car in Japan.
@sirfizzwhizz: we really can’t use how far you stroke someone cuz that’s literally just force from the punch. Doesn’t translate to lifting in fiction. There’s TONS of people that punch far asf but can’t lift that much.
Also sukuna 15f performed the same feat but against buildings and concrete and we know he can’t lift as much as either of the HR folks. My point is “punch far=/= lift heavy asf” in fiction
@strawdiv: And so does maki scaling and being faster than hakari. And by default toji scales too.
How does she scale to him? Jackpot Hakari only has good feats, so scaling her to base Hakari means nothing. I fail to see how she's even on the same level as Hakari. She struggled to keep up with Naobito, who could travel at Mach 3 (over time), and Maki only managed to effectively tag him when he was barely able to maintain Mach 2 speed.
Maki, at best, is supersonic+, and I'm being generous. She couldn't even touch Naobito, but since then, she's gotten stronger. At most, she should now be supersonic, maybe borderline hypersonic if you want to heavily boost her. But hypersonic+ or massively hypersonic+? Not a chance.
In the early stages of the Demon Slayer show, demons who weren't even lower moon level could easily move and attack at transonic speed. Even Tanjiro, without his mark, was already facing opponents faster than or as fast as Naobito (who could instantly move at that speed, unlike Naobito, who needed buildup to even reach Mach 3).
Toji casually threw a truck through the air with 1 hand… yuji also threw a car with ease. They’re not physically stronger.
Yeah but average truck weighs around 4-6 tons and what base Gyomei was able to casually push around the city for training purposes was around 70 tons (It was bigger than Gyomei who is 2.2 meter tall) and this is base Gyomei who's just training not peak Gyomei or Demon slayer mark Gyomei.
It is implied in the that the bearer's physical arm strength is increased by around 100x after the mark is awakened which should make Gyomei considerably stronger than Toji?
JJK duo have better weapons and strength and durability so that's why they take this. The DS duo aren't slow by any means thanks to scaling far above a casual lightning-timer in Mitsuri (Check 1:33 and 2:44):
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And somewhat keeping up with Kokushibo who would blitz any other Hashira below them except for Marked Obanai. But Maki and Toji have more going for them in this match-up.
They are slightly stronger physically than Sanemi (not Gyomei tho) and they are outclassed in every other possible stat like speed, combat speed, range, ranged attacks, precognition, striking power, skill (vastly better), battle IQ, endurance and etc.
@ecoblitz: yes and no? Your own argument of throwing a car/truck then falls apart. As what is better? Relying on grabbing and throwing a foe in battle or the act of swinging your sword and cut them down and impact them so hard to fly away causing damage where they land? So unless they are in a lifting contest your origonal point was pointless as you just now pointed out now 🤔 I mean right?
Yes they do. Even a casual Toji can do stuff like this with his strength:
And overpowered Playful Cloud Maki easily:
Who can do this:
He also has showcased more impressive strength feats than Sanemi & Gyomei while toying with Dagon
The strongest of the Hashira duo that is Gyomei doesn't have strength feats to match the above even if you scale his physicals above Akaza.
They are slightly stronger physically than Sanemi (not Gyomei tho) and they are outclassed in every other possible stat like speed, combat speed, range, ranged attacks, precognition, striking power, skill (vastly better), battle IQ, endurance and etc.
The first part is false. Speed is debatable. Sanemi doesn't have any ranged attacks to speak of. And Gyomei only has his ball/axe and chain to speak of for ranged attacks which won't pose any issue to either Toji and Maki. Both of the Zen'in have their own version of precog as well. Striking power and battle IQ is also debatable with only Gyomei being the relevant one in those categories. Maki straight up blows either out of the water in terms of durability/endurance thanks to taking hits from a less nerfed Heian Sukuna who is still superior to Yuji and being relative/above a version of Yuji who could survive this:
There's also her surviving Cursed Naoya doing this to her:
@monarch_knight: How long she took to recover and save Kamo was even less:
And needing to take a breather after tanking such an attack isn't all that bad. Especially since it was Pre-Awakened Maki who was hit by Cursed Andrew Tate.
@packwatcher: I agree that she rejoined the fight in like 2 minutes +,but the fact remains that she still didn't fully recover by the attack and she won't have the same leeway here to be able to sit one out if she needs to.Same thing happened after Sukuna landed the first black flash on her,she was out of the fight and the only reason she survived is because a bunch of other people came to fight him one after the other.
Also people shouldn't compare Maki to Sukuna,even in physicals.Current Sukuna who is weaker than the 15 fingered version (utleast imo),who can't even use RCT,was holding back vs Maki and when he started getting serious/excited he perception blitzed her.Furthermore she couldn't even a land a single hit on him unless it was a cheapshot when he was busy fighting other sorcerers.
I'm only little through JJK, so I can't really argue strongly for the Demon Slayer side here. But for anyone who forgot these striking feats because the people arguing for Gyomei and Sanemi aren't bringing these up:
The shockwaves from Rengoku's strikes literally lifted an entire train that easily weight over 100 tons
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Tengen literally created a chasm/tore through the ground with a single strike
Sanemi's casual strikes tearing through thick metal beams
Yes they do. Even a casual Toji can do stuff like this with his strength:
And overpowered Playful Cloud Maki easily:
Who can do this:
None of the points you've made are quantifiable or particularly impressive. Merely mentioning battle scenes without concrete measurements doesn't strengthen your argument. Toji's victory over Dagon isn't significant in this context unless we can attribute specific metrics to his strength and speed.
You referenced Maki's survival of Mach 3 speed, but that's not the same as showcasing her own speed. Anyway, here's Zenitsu blitzing lightning itself, estimated at Mach 600-1000, He not only travelled as fast as lightning but even faster to blitz-one shot up6. Furthermore, all Hashira surpass this level of speed or at this level of speed, so the Hashira duo wins.
This feat is Massively hypersonic +
Toji also displayed better strength feats than Sanemi and Gyomei in his fight against Dagon
No he didn't, Gyomei could easily push a rock weighing around 60-70 tons casually around a town as part of his training and that's not even his peak strength or his strength in demon slayer mark mode where its stated that anyone bearing a mark gets 100x stronger.
The strongest of the Hashira duo that is Gyomei doesn't have strength feats to match the above even if you scale his physicals above Akaza.
Akaza embarrasses Toji in a 1v1; Toji simply lacks the strength to contend with Akaza. Akaza's normal punches can literally create shockwaves. When has Toji demonstrated such power?
Speed is debatable.
It's not really. DS normal demons who are not even lower moon are transonic.
Sanemi doesn't have any ranged attacks to speak of.
What? Unlike RenGoku, whose flames were mainly for display, Sanemi, the Wind Hashira, utilizes genuine physical wind attacks. It's all legit.
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And Gyomei only has his ball/axe and chain to speak of for ranged attacks which won't pose any issue to either Toji and Maki.
On what basis? Gyomei has superior speed feats, strength, endurance, precognition, and other stats. Moreover, he is vastly more skilled than Maki and Toji, making it easy for him to overpower them.
Both of the Zen'in have their own version of precog as well.
Not nearly half as good as Transparent World, Gyomei and Sanemi can literally see what attack Maki or Toji will do just by observing their muscle twitches. Not to mention, with their speed, they could even one-shot them.
Striking power and battle IQ is also debatable with only Gyomei being the relevant one in those categories.
WHY? again on what basis? Why are you assuming everything? Why is Sanemi a talented Hashira WITH MORE EXPIRIENCE THAN Maki is not part of the discussion for battle IQ?
Maki straight up blows either out of the water in terms of durability/endurance thanks to taking hits from a less nerfed Heian Sukuna who is still superior to Yuji and being relative/above a version of Yuji who could survive this:
Finally feats, She doesn't scale to Yuji at all in terms of durability, Yuji also tanked a barrage of slashes, Maki can't do that. Maki obv can't fight Sukuna even for half as long as Yuji did.
There's also her surviving Cursed Naoya doing this to her:
And kept on fighting.
1. She needed time to recover. 2. This destroys your entire scale, since saying she got blitz here means she will DEFINETELY get perception blitz by the Hashira. It's stated to be mach 3, The earlier scale I presented you of Zenitsu blitzing lightning itself is massively hypersonic+ (mach 600-1000)
None of the points you've made are quantifiable or particularly impressive.
So already we're being disingenuous. The feats are more than quantifiable and more impressive than anything Sanemi and Gyomei have strength wise.
Merely mentioning battle scenes without concrete measurements doesn't strengthen your argument.
Pretty sure posting evidence is better than saying "Nuh-uh!" To anything the opposition brings. And I'm not just posting random action scenes either. I'm showing that Toji has superior strength to either of the DS duo by specific feats.
Toji's victory over Dagon isn't significant
The victory itself isn't. The feats he performs to win are.
You referenced Maki's survival of Mach 3 speed, but that's not the same as showcasing her own speed.
I didn't bring it up to showcase her speed, genius. It was to showcase her durability/endurance.
Anyway, here's Zenitsu blitzing lightning itself, estimated at Mach 600-1000, He not only travelled as fast as lightning but even faster to blitz-one shot up6. Furthermore, all Hashira surpass this level of speed or at this level of speed, so the Hashira duo wins.
If you're using calcs to estimate the speed, then I'm not going to bother arguing with you there. Since I don't use them myself due to how unreliable they are and how easy they can be manipulated to get a certain result. As for lightning-timing Toji already casually does that against Nue's lightning which he sees moving in slow-mo:
No he didn't, Gyomei could easily push a rock weighing around 60-70 tons
Let me guess you got the size from a calc? Also that's lifting strength. It wouldn't translate to his striking. And the strength feats he showcased against Kokushibo are rather lackluster in comparison to one-shotting building-sized sea monsters like a casual Toji can:
So even if we take the boulder being 70 tons seriously to humor your wank it's not even close to what Toji can do strength wise.
Akaza embarrasses Toji in a 1v1; Toji simply lacks the strength to contend with Akaza.
Both of these statements are rather false as feats prove otherwise.
Akaza's normal punches can literally create shockwaves. When has Toji demonstrated such power?
Not the best way of judging strength between the two. Many fictional characters can't do what Akaza can and yet would still one-shot him in a contest of strength. Even Rengoku who couldn't can contend with him in strength. So your example is not the best. Also I can take this the other way around and say "Well Toji one-tapped a large building-sized monster. When has Akaza demonstrated such power?"
It's not really.
It is unless you wanna ignore feats from the JJK side like you did at the beginning of your post where you tried to ignore the feats I posted showcasing Toji's superior strength.
What? Unlike RenGoku, whose flames were mainly for display, Sanemi, the Wind Hashira, utilizes genuine physical wind attacks. It's all legit.
Fair enough on this one. I forgot Sanemi can do such things.
On what basis? Gyomei has superior speed feats, strength, endurance, precognition, and other stats. Moreover, he is vastly more skilled than Maki and Toji, making it easy for him to overpower them.
1. On the basis of feats.
2. He doesn't.
3. He definitely doesn't.
4. Nope.
5. Both have their own form of it as well.
6. He is more skilled sure. But their stats easily allow them to keep up. And skill doesn't allow you to overpower your opponent. Which he can't do regardless since they blow him out of the water in strength and durability.
Not nearly half as good as Transparent World, Gyomei and Sanemi can literally see what attack Maki or Toji will do just by observing their muscle twitches.
Never said it's as good. Just pointed out that they have their own version. And I'm pretty sure Sanemi doesn't have STW. Only Gyomei does unless I'm forgetting when he used it.
WHY? again on what basis? Why are you assuming everything?
Ironic since that was all you've been doing by making easily debunked claims.
Why is Sanemi a talented Hashira WITH MORE EXPIRIENCE THAN Maki is not part of the discussion for battle IQ?
Having talent doesn't mean you have the best Battle IQ. And Sanemi lacks feats to say he does. He is skilled in combat but in terms of intelligence he lacks feats to be on par with Maki let alone Toji.
She doesn't scale to Yuji at all in terms of durability, Yuji also tanked a barrage of slashes, Maki can't do that.
Yes she does. Feats outright go against this claim. And Yuji only tanked weakened slashes from a Sukuna who had less than 10% output due to Megumi protecting his friends:
We know at that point Yuji can't take slashes from a Sukuna anywhere near his best as proven later on where he was going to get one-shot if not for others helping him or RCT healing damage from slashes. Regardless tanking slashes isn't what Maki scales from. But rather Yuji's blunt durability and the strength of the Sukuna who did this:
To Yuji. As she can somewhat match his strength and tank his hits:
So yeah. She does scale.
Maki obv can't fight Sukuna even for half as long as Yuji did.
Also quite false because as shown above Maki was proven his equal physically against Meguna and a less nerfed version of Heian Sukuna later on.
1. She needed time to recover.
2. This destroys your entire scale, since saying she got blitz here means she will DEFINETELY get perception blitz by the Hashira.
It's stated to be mach 3,
The earlier scale I presented you of Zenitsu blitzing lightning itself is massively hypersonic+ (mach 600-1000)
1. Which isn't a bad thing nor does it go against her being well above Sanemi and Gyomei physically in durability/endurance. And to make this poor lowballl attempt worse that was Pre-Awakened Maki. Maki after realizing her full potential is proven much more durable.
2. Again that's Pre-Awakened Maki. Or are you trying to lowballl without realizing that little fact? Also I never said she got blitzed or to highlight her speed at that point. I brought the Naoya example up as a way to showcase her physical durability/endurance. Not speed.
3. Via wonky calcs I'm sure. Which I'm not going to take seriously nor bother debating you about since I already made my opinion on calcs known previously in this post.
@packwatcher: I agree that she rejoined the fight in like 2 minutes +,but the fact remains that she still didn't fully recover by the attack and she won't have the same leeway here to be able to sit one out if she needs to.Same thing happened after Sukuna landed the first black flash on her,she was out of the fight and the only reason she survived is because a bunch of other people came to fight him one after the other.
Again that was Pre-Awakened Maki. And neither of the duo is going to be able to replicate what Naoya did against her weaker version. Let alone what Meguna did against Yuji. Same Meguna whom she can somewhat contend with in strength and tank his blows.
The 100x enhancement of the Demon Slayer Mark is a strange logic that is rejected even by the vs Battle Wiki. If we take this seriously, Kokushibo vs Sanemi, Gyomei match becomes too weird. In East asia, 100 times is not really means 100 times, it just means a lot.
Akaza uses his BDA to create shockwave, also Creating shockwave isn’t than impressive in JJk verse.
I can wank JJK side better if I can use Fan calc. Fan calculations contain too many errors and there is no guarantee that Demon Slayer lightning will work like real lightning.
Toji destroyed gigantic shikigami weighing thousands of tons or even more, and Maki can physically compete with a 15F Sukuna.
No Demon Slayer character can match them in terms of strength or AP. You could argue that they are stronger than the Heaven-restricted duo based on Gyutaro’s BDA feats or Demon Slayer Hashira's weird piercing AP logic, but they aren’t still enough.
@packwatcher: I should finish JJK before properly arguing that the Hashira wins. But I want to say, 70 tons is not much for Demon Slayer characters' strength. The shockwaves from Rengoku's blows lifted an entire train that would easily weight over 100 tons. A single strike from Tengen tore through the ground and created a hole. Both those feats would require more strength than moving a 70 ton boulder around. Although Gyomei didn't displayed much 'visually impressive' feats against Kokushibo, his striking strength/AP should be a tier above Rengoku or Tengen's. Also, I doubt either verse's lightning attacks are anything close to mach 400/real-world-cloud-to-ground lightning.
@redsalmon: 100 times is obvious hyperbole. Demon Slayer in general has a lot of hyperbolic statements. Gyutaro said he'll/he can kill Buddha. Muichiro has unlocked 'infinite strength'. Sanemi can perform 'infinite strikes'. The Infinite Castle is 'infinite', thus making Nakime a creator of a universe. We're not supposed to take these at face value.
@agmine570: It's not that I think 60-70 tons is absurd for Demon Slayer. It's just that I highly doubt the boulder Gyomei pushed weighed that much. It doesn't help that the same guy seems to blindly believe Zenitsu is Mach 600 by using what are clearly unreliable calcs as a basis for his argument.
Also the Infinity Castle being Infinite doesn't necessarily mean Nakime has to create a universe to make it so. It's confirmed as a form of spatial manipulation that allows her to make it seem like it's Infinite:
I'm fairly certain there are other fictional characters who have similar abilities to her.
It's not that I think 60-70 tons is absurd for Demon Slayer. It's just that I highly doubt the boulder Gyomei pushed weighed that much. It doesn't help that the same guy seems to blindly believe Zenitsu is Mach 600 by using what are clearly unreliable calcs as a basis for his argument.
Ah, okay. Mach 600 Zenitsu is golden though. Powerscalers on vsbw thinks every attack in fiction that has the form of lightning is mach 400~800.
Also the Infinity Castle being Infinite doesn't necessarily mean Nakime has to create a universe to make it so. It's confirmed as a form of spatial manipulation that allows her to make it seem like it's Infinite:
Just in case you're mistaken, I wasn't wanking Nakime or DS verse and calling Nakime a universe creator there. That was just one of the things I was using to make a point about how Demon Slayer has a lot of hyperbole statements and unquantifiable things that shouldn't be taken at face value
A damn close fight, on account of their comparable physicals, enhanced perception and dominance as close-quarters fighters.
But between the Hashiras' edge in martial prowess and the JJK duo's edges in versatility, durability negation to counter the Hashiras' great endurance (via Maki and Toji's respective soul-striking weapons), and Toji's superior tactical abilities to capitalize on those edges, I'm inclined to favor the Heavenly Restricted duo more often than not after a great fight.
@packwatcher: I agree that she rejoined the fight in like 2 minutes +,but the fact remains that she still didn't fully recover by the attack and she won't have the same leeway here to be able to sit one out if she needs to.Same thing happened after Sukuna landed the first black flash on her,she was out of the fight and the only reason she survived is because a bunch of other people came to fight him one after the other.
Again that was Pre-Awakened Maki. And neither of the duo is going to be able to replicate what Naoya did against her weaker version. Let alone what Meguna did against Yuji. Same Meguna whom she can somewhat contend with in strength and tank his blows.
The only thing that changed later on was that Maki could perceive the changes in air density and temperature around her,which enchanced her reaction speed,her physicals remained the same.
15 finger Meguna was nerfed by megumi to 10% output and even then he fend her and Yuji off combined without much trouble.
Do you believe that 15 finger Sukuna who is not nerfed,like the one vs Mahoraga in shibuya,is physically weaker than current Sukuna?
The only thing that changed later on was that Maki could perceive the changes in air density and temperature around her,which enchanced her reaction speed,her physicals remained the same.
Pretty sure that's contradicted by the fact of her being now suddenly strong enough to intercept Naoya with a punch:
And then you have the manga itself confirming that she became equal to Toji:
And later feats against Sukuna further reinforce this notion.
15 finger Meguna was nerfed by megumi to 10% output and even then he fend her and Yuji off combined without much trouble.
Being nerfed or not doesn't change the fact that he can still do stuff like this:
And to make this argument worse it's confirmed that the only thing nerfed was his output while the body was unhindered:
So her taking hits and keeping up physically with this Sukuna proves her physical strength got a massive upgrade in comparison to her Pre-Awakened self.
Do you believe that 15 finger Sukuna who is not nerfed,like the one vs Mahoraga in shibuya,is physically weaker than current Sukuna?
Physically? It's debatable. In terms of his CE output? Yes.
Also if by current Sukuna you mean the one Yuji is going up against solo then I'm not sure how that's relevant since Maki fought an arguably stronger version and can take his hits as I showed in a previous post.
@packwatcher: In your own scans you can see that the only thing that changed for Maki is that she sharpened her senses.She always was strong enough to punch Naoya,what she couldn't handle before was his speed.When she intercepted naoya with that punch he wasn't moving at top speed because we know that he needs to gather momentum for that,yet in the scan we see him standing still a couple of panels before Maki punched him,he didn't have enough wind up.So the only thing that seperated Maki from Toji was her senses as we see here
Secondly it seems our opinions over what cursed energy output is differ.When Sukuna is talking about his CE output he doesn't refer only to the output of his CT but also how powerful his CE reinforcement is (how powerful his punches,kicks durability is).In your scan when Sukuna talks about the control of his body,he meant the body's motor functions(the body to move how he wants it to move,no time lag between his thoughts and actions etc.).To further prove my point,he differintiates between the two in his fight with Yuta and Yuji
I agree that Maki somewhat scales to meguna's punch in terms of durability,as she is superior to that version of Yuji who got momentarily K.Oed by that,but after a short while he rejoined the fight.Though right afterwards Meguna got hit by Angel's technique which weakened the bond between Sukuna and Megumi.As a result the Meguna that Maki and Yuji later fought is weaker than the Meguna that smacked Yuji through buildings.
You have to remember that Angel's technique is capable of erasing other techniques,barriers and cursed objectslike Sukunas fingers (this is also mentioned in my second scan)
Going to give to to the Hashira. I'm not sure what to think of Gyomei, but unlike the other breathing styles, wind breathing actually produces ranged slash wave attacks that aren't just for aesthetic. Considering speed is favoring the hashira here, Sanemi and Gyomei could take it if they avoid soul-split Katana and it's variations.
EDIT: Nevermind, Hashira take it solidly. I forgot Gyomei has transparent world, Maki and Toji may get clapped here as they now have absolutely none of the advantages of possessing 0 cursed energy except their physicals. Gyomei is not only arguably faster but can anticipate their moves and has enough damage output to deal lethal damage.
So already we're being disingenuous. The feats are more than quantifiable and more impressive than anything Sanemi and Gyomei have strength wise.
How are they more impressive? All you have are panels of him jumping around and walking on water? USE TERMS SUBSONIC, HYPERSONIC, and so on.
Pretty sure posting evidence is better than saying "Nuh-uh!" To anything the opposition brings.
I've addressed everything that resembled an argument.
And I'm not just posting random action scenes either. I'm showing that Toji has superior strength to either of the DS duo by specific feats.
YOU ARE POSTING RANDOM ACTION SCENES WITH NO ACTUAL CONTEXT ABOUT THEIR SPEED, STRENGTH AND ETC.
The victory itself isn't. The feats he performs to win are.
WHAT FEATS? WALKING ON WATER? YOU HAVE NOT EVEN GIVEN A SCALE FOR DAGON FOR THIS FEAT TO MAKE SENSE AT ALL!!
I didn't bring it up to showcase her speed, genius. It was to showcase her durability/endurance.
which is barely building level.
If you're using calcs to estimate the speed, then I'm not going to bother arguing with you there. Since I don't use them myself due to how unreliable they are and how easy they can be manipulated to get a certain result. As for lightning-timing Toji already casually does that against Nue's lightning which he sees moving in slow-mo:
This is not canon lol
calcs involve basic mathematics and have both low-end and high-end ranges, which counters your concerns about manipulation.
Let me guess you got the size from a calc?
Yes, very basic math. It's also the low end since Gyomei is 2.2 meters tall, and the rock was considerably bigger than him.
Also that's lifting strength. It wouldn't translate to his striking.
When did I say it was striking strength?
And the strength feats he showcased against Kokushibo are rather lackluster in comparison to one-shotting building-sized sea monsters like a casual Toji can:
What do you mean? What feats? You did not compare anything here. And since when does size equal AP/DC? What is this scaling? 😭😭😭😭😭
Most of the scenes are not canon but let's entertain your "scaling"
Here's Akaza casually destroying a building with his punch.
Both of these statements are rather false as feats prove otherwise.
WHAT PROOF? Akaza violates Toji low diff.
Not the best way of judging strength between the two. Many fictional characters can't do what Akaza can and yet would still one-shot him in a contest of strength.
Why are you so vague? Who are these characters stronger than Akaza that can create shockwaves? What are you talking about? If anyone has stronger striking power than Akaza, then they can definitely create shockwaves. 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Even Rengoku who couldn't can contend with him in strength. So your example is not the best.
Why bring RenGoku? How ise he relevant here? Why don't you give more context????
Also I can take this the other way around and say "Well Toji one-tapped a large building-sized monster. When has Akaza demonstrated such power?"
Yes he has, his casual punches can destroy entire buildings.
It is unless you wanna ignore feats from the JJK side like you did at the beginning of your post where you tried to ignore the feats I posted showcasing Toji's superior strength.
What feats? you said Toji surpasses Sanemi and Gyomei because of his feats against Dagon but all he did was run on water and kill few curses!! who btw you think are building level because of their size 💀🤦♂️
These are not feats, these are series of assumptions.
1. On the basis of feats.
The fact that he can he can easily fight Muzan, where each one of his tentacles can do this:
This version of Muzan is also extremely weak (because of the poison and all)
2. He doesn't.
Why? because Toji can run on water or because he can kill "building level" curses?
3. He definitely doesn't.
Why?
5. Both have their own form of it as well.
Transparent world is tiers above anything jjk has for precog except that future sight ability of some dude.
6. He is more skilled sure. But their stats easily allow them to keep up. And skill doesn't allow you to overpower your opponent. Which he can't do regardless since they blow him out of the water in strength and durability.
"More skilled" mean they can easily create more winning cons than them. Not to mention, they have better synergy than them as well.
Ironic since that was all you've been doing by making easily debunked claims.
Using panels with no context ✅
Using filler material to make arguments ✅
But I'm making easily debunkable claims?💀
Having talent doesn't mean you have the best Battle IQ. And Sanemi lacks feats to say he does. He is skilled in combat but in terms of intelligence he lacks feats to be on par with Maki let alone Toji.
Sanemi has fought way more opponents than Maki, so he easily outclasses her in battle IQ. As for his feats, he outshines Maki and Toji in speed, durability, endurance, skill, and a few other stats.
Upper Moon 1 has been shown to blitz and almost one-shot Akaza. Akaza could destroy entire buildings with his punches. And Sanemi could go toe-to-toe against Upper Moon 1 like this.
This alone drastically upscales Sanemi.
Yes she does. Feats outright go against this claim. And Yuji only tanked weakened slashes from a Sukuna who had less than 10% output due to Megumi protecting his friends:
We know at that point Yuji can't take slashes from a Sukuna anywhere near his best as proven later on where he was going to get one-shot if not for others helping him or RCT healing damage from slashes. Regardless tanking slashes isn't what Maki scales from. But rather Yuji's blunt durability and the strength of the Sukuna who did this:
To Yuji. As she can somewhat match his strength and tank his hits:
I guess she does scale to some extent to pre-awakening Yuji.
And not to mention, these are not casual hits or raw strength but amplified by his cursed energy, akin to how Gojo uses limitless to amplify the power of his punch.
Furthermore, this isn't impressive considering it barely destroyed the building fully. On the contrary, casual hits from Akaza can do worse than this partial destruction.
Upper Moon 1 scales way higher than Akaza, to the point he can easily perception blitz him and also cut off his limbs and Sanemi fought Muzan who is stated to be so strong that upper moon were incomparable to him.
Also quite false because as shown above Maki was proven his equal physically against Meguna and a less nerfed version of Heian Sukuna later on.
She only managed to survive going toe to toe for few hits. That's not equal.
1. Which isn't a bad thing nor does it go against her being well above Sanemi and Gyomei physically in durability/endurance. And to make this poor lowballl attempt worse that was Pre-Awakened Maki. Maki after realizing her full potential is proven much more durable.
She isn't above Sanemi in durability or endurance since Sanemi was able to fight Upper Moon 1 and sustain serious injuries but then also go on to fight Muzan, whose tentacles were still strong enough to easily destroy entire buildings.
2. Again that's Pre-Awakened Maki. Or are you trying to lowballl without realizing that little fact? Also I never said she got blitzed or to highlight her speed at that point. I brought the Naoya example up as a way to showcase her physical durability/endurance. Not speed.
There is nothing to low ball here? She did not do anything but survive the attack which also isn't building level.
3. Via wonky calcs I'm sure. Which I'm not going to take seriously nor bother debating you about since I already made my opinion on calcs known previously in this post.
You don't have any actual counter against my calcs or any argument for that matter. You failed to present any actual feat, anything you did present was either filler feats or a pure assumptions like Size = AP/DC and etc.
yes and no? Your own argument of throwing a car/truck then falls apart.
how so?
As what is better? Relying on grabbing and throwing a foe in battle or the act of swinging your sword and cut them down and impact them so hard to fly away causing damage where they land?
Great red herring right there. The point isn't which is better; the point is it's not a reliable way to guage lifting strength and examples were given. Punching far=/= lifiting heavy in fiction.
So unless they are in a lifting contest your origonal point was pointless as you just now pointed out now 🤔 I mean right?
Wrong. Someone mentioned lifting strength and used "punching far" as proof, i proved it false due to how people/fights in ficiton are.
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