Regarding Infinite Tsukuyomi - The Mind and The Soul

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thenamelessone

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Edited By thenamelessone
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Hello there, everybody already knows about Madara Uchiha's Infinite Tsukuyomi feat, but today I'm here to give another perspective on this feat, discussing its exact mechanics and taking a slightly deeper but relatively surface-level view on Naruto souls and minds, and some of the concepts that go missed by people when discussing Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Mind = Soul in Naruto

Now, to establish this basic element, we will first focus on how spiritual energy and mental energy, the same things, are described as originating from the same source of human existence, for example, here Sakura says Mental and Spiritual energy in the same sense, originating from the same point.

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here she likens the function of Psychic/Mental energy and Spiritual energy together, the origin is the same and so is the utilisation and affect/usage.

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but here she moves on and just says Mental Energy for the overall term, meaning mental energy = psychic energy and spiritual energy.

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another example of this phenomenon is when it's described how chakra is made, from the spirit and the body, body loosening up one type of energy while spirit loosening up one type of energy, physical/bodily energy and mental/spiritual energy, see how the text states that spirit/soul and body are the two energy producers in the construction of chakra? there are only two energies, coming from spirit and body.

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Notice how the diagram right next to the text says "Mind" and not "spirit"? this is because the intent is clear, Spiritual energy/psychic energy spawns from the same source, the soul/consciousness of a being.

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what this shows us is simple, Spirit = Mind = Soul, Spiritual Energy = Psychic Energy = Mental Energy, the source and the product are all the same thing, because in Naruto Mind = Soul, but to go forward I would discuss the concept

But to go on further, another big piece of evidence spawns from Ino Yamanaka's mind transfer technique, as Sakura explains the technique, the technique is a transference of Mind, where the mind transfer overtakes a psyche, leaving Ino's opponent as helpless as a doll.

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but the "mind" transfer technique that overtakes a "psyche" is also the transference of the Soul itself from one body to another.

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further confirmation from Kakashi on the mechanics of Shintensin, which involves the transference of a soul from one to another body and overtaking their soul.

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what does the mind transference technique involving the transference of the soul mean? well, that is simple, Mind = Psyche = Soul = (Metaphorical) Heart

Chakra can't exist in a stable form without having both physical and spiritual elements, to be chakra and stable, Spiritual/mental needs physical and vice versa, otherwise they become unstable masses of energy with an appetite for their polar opposites.

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And if you think all the mental energy citations are weird, remember that in Naruto mental energy = spiritual energy even down to the basic Japanese Kanji, confirmed by CV user JOVIOLMA capable of reading Japanese.

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basically what I'm suggesting is that in Naruto mental abilities also affect the soul because Naruto follows the concept of Mind = Soul, a concept followed by many popular Eastern verses such as Devil May Cry, Bleach and so forth, but there is further evidence tieing mental manipulation in Naruto to spiritual Manipulation other than just the very clear cut examples laid out before and the verse's utilisation of souls and minds.

For example, here is an example, Kurama tells Naruto to "give him his soul" and then proceeds to mind control him, yet another example of Soul and Mind manipulation being treated as the same.

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Sasuke's Genjutsu is stated to control the spirit of the nine-tailed fox, yet Genjutsu is mind manipulation, yet another likening between mind manipulation and soul manipulation.

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yet another likening between the manipulation of the soul and mind, what controls the mind can control the soul, because the mind is the soul and the soul is the mind, the overall takeaway from this section is.

1. Soul = Mind = Psyche = (Metaphorical) Heart

2. Mental Energy = Psychic Energy = Spiritual Energy

3. Mind manipulation = Soul manipulation

The Mechanics of Infinite Tsukuyomi

The Mechanics of Infinite Tsukuyomi closely resemble Tsukuyomi, I know it might be a name fallacy but I don't think Kishimoto accidentally named the Ultimate Genjutsu of the verse after the most popular and used version, same way I don't think he accidentally implemented similar mechanics for both.

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and I definitely don't think he accidentally foreshadowed Itachi's ocular power aka Tsukuyomi being used on the moon, which was the main objective of this entire arc.

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The Name, the similar mechanics and the foreshadowing as well as the fact that Infinite Tsukuyomi vertabim works like Itachi's Tsukuyomi worked against Izumi in the novel, make me believe it's pretty clear their mechanics are the same just IT requires a portion of the power of the Demonic Statue.

now going by the mechanics of Tsukuyomi, the one databook entry uses spiritual and mental as exchangeable multiple times over but I will post the part I think is the most relevant and concise.

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Among the abilities of the ''Eye of Insight'' and the ''Eye of Hypnotism'' possessed by the Sharingan, the supreme genjutsu created by the ''Hypnotic Eye'' ---that's the "Tsukuyomi''. Naturally, those who exist on this earth live within the limitations of time, gravity, and space, and how they demonstrate their abilities under those limitations it's what has separated the winners from the losers. However this ''Tsukuyomi'' it's a jutsu that drags the opponent into the spiritual world created by it's user and he himself rules over those [RESTRICTIONS] !*

*In other words, common sense from the outside world does not apply at all within the genjutsu, and that also means that it's impossible to even oppose the user. Those who are captured by "tsukuyomi'' find themselves in an infinite spirit world where they never know when it'll come to an end. With their whole fate in the hands of the user, they are sometimes hellish tortured, and sometimes they are shown hellish pictures that cry in agony continuously...As a result, only the fate of spiritual destruction/mental breakdown awaits it's pitiful prisoner...!! A tough body that can crush rocks and speeds like that of lightning are powerless against this jutsu...that's the reason why Tsukuyomi is feared as the strongest jutsu.*

Basically, There are three layers to Tsukuyomi.

1. Soul/Mind BFR

2. Construction of a Spiritual/Mental Domain

3. Manipulation/Control of the Spiritual/Mental Domain perfectly

from here on forward, we're gonna go with Infinite Tsukuyomi following the same concept and mechanics as the above three.

Infinite Tsukuyomi - What does it do?

as shown above, we will be following the mechanics of Tsukuyomi, so listen very carefully from here, Infinite Tsukuyomi would first drag the mind/soul of the victim from the body (BFR) and then construct an eternal Spiritual/mental domain for them and then manipulate that domain into being the perfect world from the bottom of the Victim's heart.

manipulating soul and mind, spawning a Spiritual/Mental domain and manipulating it thoroughly, very nice soul/mind manipulation and very clear cut.

so how many Souls/Minds were BFRed? how many Spiritual/Mental domains were constructed and manipulated? well, all beings on Earth were affected.

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And no, things underwater weren't safe, the light was piercing through shadows and was unavoidable to everyone per Madara.

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I don't know if Insects were affected by this technique, but normal animals obviously were and so were beings underwater, that alone is enough to give both a mental and spiritual potency in trillions.

basically, for the finale, I'm suggesting that Infinite Tsukuyomi manipulated Trillions of Minds/Souls on a Large Planet scale (Naruto planet size) and just created-manipulated just as many Mental/Spiritual domains.

Recap

A Quick Recap of the concepts we've established.

  • Spiritual Energy = Mental Energy
  • Spiritual Domain = Mental Domain
  • Mind = Soul = Psyche = (Metaphorical) Heart
  • Mind Manipulation = Soul Manipulation due to the above three.
  • Infinite Tsukuyomi seems to work on the principles of Tsukuyomi
  • Tsukuyomi involves manipulating a soul/mind then creating a Spiritual/Mental Domain and manipulating it.

with all the above in mind? Infinite Tsukuyomi involves the manipulation of trillions of Minds/Souls, the creation of that many Spiritual/mental domains and then their manipulation accordingly to the victim's desire, all happening over a large planetary range. Meaning both Telepathy and Spiritokinesis over trillions on a Large Planetary Scale.

what does this scale to? the resistance of almost all relevant god tiers, and the mind/soul hax potency of anyone with more chakra than the Ten-Tails.

I would be happy to answer any questions in the comic section, I hope you've enjoyed reading.

Credit to @kingogkings777 and @JOVIOLMA for supplying scans and proper translations.

Thank You for Reading

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Flameburn146

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Nice, everything looks good

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Eredin12

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Nice job as always, it is even better than I thought.

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emperorthanos-

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#5 emperorthanos-  Moderator

Moved to appropriate forum with creates consent

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VoidUnbound

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#6  Edited By VoidUnbound

Damn it's really good! Nice job my friend. Perfect to start the new forum.

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GreyTheJiren

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#7  Edited By GreyTheJiren  Online

Too long to read.

Sharingan was shown to allow the user to interact with someone else's mental world, like when Sasuke entered Naruto's world and suppressed Kurama's soul. So maybe it makes sense.

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UltimateSage

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🗿

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nwname

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#10  Edited By nwname  Moderator

What does spiritokinesis mean exactly? If you mean their spirits were taken out of their body, that is not true. They were all in a dream and the tree was absorbing their chakra from its roots. Their spirits need to be there for chakra generation and extraction as some of the scans posted in the OP indicate.

Also where did the part equating more chakra = immunity to it come from? Do you think 6 paths naruto had less chakra than 10 tails? Because hes not immune.

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thenamelessone

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@nwname:

What does spiritokinesis mean exactly? If you mean their spirits were taken out of their body, that is not true. They were all in a dream and the tree was absorbing their chakra from its roots. Their spirits need to be there for chakra generation and extraction as some of the scans posted in the OP indicate.

when I say that I simply mean the manipulation of the soul, and obviously the soul was not moved out of the body in the physical space, that would mean death, no need to go onto an argument about chakra generation to shoot down that notion, basically the soul existed attached to the body but not in its conventional spiritual space, however Tsukuyomi is supposed to work is how infinite Tsukuyomi worked.

Also where did the part equating more chakra = immunity to it come from? Do you think 6 paths naruto had less chakra than 10 tails? Because hes not immune.

almost all, Naruto is the one exception, though I don't doubt Madara won't be able to soul hax Naruto so Naruto's resistance would scale to Madara's soul manipulation potency anyway, and every other god tier either has all the means to resist (Sasuke, Madara, Hagoromo and Kaguya) or have for some reason already resisted (Hamura).

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Vayvy

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#12  Edited By Vayvy

so any mind hax powers can shit on narutoverse souls, neat.

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AnimeFreak1

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#13  Edited By AnimeFreak1

Nice thread

Also Akatsuki novel confirming Itachi with Tsukuyomi can destroy the soul

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thenamelessone

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@vayvy said:

so any mind hax powers can shit on narutoverse souls, neat.

Dumb comment really, you're basically saying "so any mind hax powers can shit on narutoverse minds", if a mind/soul hax overpowers their resistances and mental/spiritual energy, then sure, Xavier and Professor X might tool Narutoverse, that was never challenged.

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GreyTheJiren

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#15 GreyTheJiren  Online

@vayvy said:

so any mind hax powers can shit on narutoverse souls, neat.

How many mind hax abilities do you know that directly affect the soul too?

Dumb comment really, you're basically saying "so any mind hax powers can shit on narutoverse minds", if a mind/soul hax overpowers their resistances and mental/spiritual energy, then sure, Xavier and Professor X might tool Narutoverse, that was never challenged.

I don't remember Xavier ever demonstrated something on the level of IT, even with Cerebro he can't do that.

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MasterBuster666

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Cool....