In terms of gunfight, it's obviously Ethan Hunt. He can dual wield and do fancy slides and rolls along with sniping people with only an M9 Berreta while driving a motorcycle in top speed. He charges in front of gunfights and just forgoes any cover because he's just too fast for any of them.
He also shoots down a drone while the sun was hitting his eyes and after he just suffered a severe car crash.
I'll say it's a tie. Why? Ethan didn't really show much but he definitely showcased his speed and knowledge of Eskrima whereas Rambo is a bit sloppy and sluggish when using eskrima. Eskrima is suppose to be fast and quick yet Rambo was the opposite here.
Yeah this is not even close. Hunt wins. Like why this is even a question when motorbikes are literally Ethan's bread and butter?
Once again, not even close. Hunt's free climbing was just him experiencing tuesday whereas Rambo looked like he was holding on for dear life. Not only that, Hunt can still free climb while being heavily injured and had just recently survived a Helicopter Crash. Helicopter Crashes literally has near zero survival rates.
I gotta say Hunt. Why? Because the man was doing actual twists and turns to evade bullets from machine guns. He was performing those things without having any prior experience of piloting a Helicopter yet he's performing well than even expert pilots. Meanwhile Rambo had allies to get the enemy chopper off his back and has help from their bad aim.
Again Hunt. He has to face lightning storms and Walker's unconscious big ass whereas Rambo only had to face a malfunctioning parachute.
Here Rambo was able to shoot 5 pirates, some already pointing a gun at him, before they could shoot him, in just 2 seconds.
You see, the thing is, Ethan has already done this but what makes it even more tense and more impressive is that they already know Ethan's a dangerous guy and know what he's capable of whereas the pirates don't know who they were threatening at and pretty much underestimated Rambo.
Here he was able to kill 5 pirates before they could react, with a shotgun!
Speaking of a shotgun. Rambo was able to kill 3 man and leave before any sicario could take a shot at him
- Again he has the element of surprise there whereas Ethan's opponents knew how dangerous he was.
Rambo is the kind of guy that even with an heavily injured stomach, can hip fire an AK-47 with one arm while holding a boy over his shoulder with his other arm and still hits his targets
- This just speaks of his strength and endurance more rather than his marksmanship. Sure, it's still an impressive feat of marksmanship. But it's nothing compared to Ethan's drone feat. Because Ethan would have to contend with disorientation, sunlight hitting his eyes, and the speed of the drone which moves at subsonic speeds.
Also in a Rambo 3 deleted scene Rambo was able to some soviets down from 1,000 yards away with a gun he's completely unfamiliar with, but since this is a deleted scene you can take it as you wish.
So for me they're pretty much on the same level in this regard.
- Deleted scenes don't count here because they are considered non canon hence why they are called deleted scenes.
Rambo wins this, Ethan barely showed anything, while Rambo beat an actual experienced fighter. Also Rambo was not using escrima here, he was using Krabi Krabong, the footwork is much more linear and charging with Krabi Krabong, it's also much offensive per say and that's what Rambo was doing there. Rambo wins due to better feats, and probably more experience.
- You're ignoring many things. The fact that Ethan is so knowledgable about Eskrima to the point he can teach it to a potential IMF Recruit shows how formidable he is with Eskrima. Granted he didn't show much but as someone who have seen Eskrima first hand, Ethan knows what he was doing considering he was in a defensive stance and blocked every attack coming his way. He was also quick and agile with it which is how Eskrima should be. Anyways thanks for clarifying about Rambo's fighting style because when I looked it more, it's just not how Eskrima is suppose to be but when I find out it's not Eskrima, it starts to make sense. Still this is a tie. Ethan has statements and implications of him being extremely good at Eskrima to the point he can teach you with it whereas Rambo has the feats for Krabi Krabong.
Yeah Ethan wins this one no question.
- As it should be.
Yeah Ethan wins this one, but i just wanna to say that Rambo was very tired and suffered a very nasty injury hours prior to climb that cliff
in the first film Rambo also attempt to climb down (which is something more difficult to do) a slippery cliff and only jumped down because he was being shot at.
- Ethan faced the same thing but also had to contend with Walker grabbing onto his foot and Walker's a 6FT Behemoth of a man.
This is a solid Rambo win, not only Rambo has legit training (something that Ethan don't have) he was able to destroy a whole base with it
- The fact that Ethan has no training or knowledge piloting a helicopter yet was doing twists and turns and maneuvers that even expertly trained pilots can only hope to do is what makes him on the same level as Rambo. Not only that, his Helicopter has no weaponry like Rambo yet he still takes down the enemy chopper that he was chasing.
He also was able to holding his own against Podovsky's much superior gunship, and was able to evade most of his missiles.
- Evade because of bad aim and help from his allies. Rambo didn't even use proper maneuvers anything that Gunship threw at him.
And even fly and land his helicopter till his base despite the helicopter being damaged
- Still nothing compared to Ethan managing to crash his already-on-fire helicopter against the enemy chopper who was trying to get away from him because he was trying to take them down through collision.
All in all Rambo has formal training, more experienced and has hold his own against better choppers. He wins this one.
- Yeah this is where I disagree. The fact that Ethan has no training and knowledge of any kind of piloting a helicopter yet doing maneuvers, twists, and turns that even expert pilots can only hope to do is what gives him the edge against Rambo's trained and experience. Simply put, this is prodigious talent vs hardwork. It's a tie here.
Rambo. I know that Ethan had "bigger" problems during his jump, but Rambo's overall jump was more difficult and far more dangerous from the get go, and I'll explain why. what Ethan did was a HALO jump, which stands for High Altitude, Low Opening jump that means they jump from about 20 000 to 30 000 feet and opens the parachute at a low altitude after free-falling for a period of time.
- Did you just forget Ethan jumped into a lightning storm while contending with Walker's inexperience with HALO Jump? Yeah this just means his jump was already more difficult and dangerous from the get-go. Walker got hit by a lightning strike and Ethan had to save his big ass.
What Rambo did was a LALO jump, Low Altitude Low Opening jump a technique where the jumper exits the aircraft at a low altitude and opens their parachute at the last moment. The thing is, Rambo not only did LALO jump he did the mother of all LALO jumps, it's stated in the movie that he will be dropped from a ceiling of just 250 feet.
- You're forgetting many things. For one, Ethan didn't perform the HALO Jump as planned and only pulled his chute after the systems tells him which would have killed him but didn't. Ethan explained it best here.
“You see, the thing is, Ethan has already done this but what makes it even more tense and more impressive is that they already know Ethan's a dangerous guy and know what he's capable of whereas the pirates don't know who they were threatening at and pretty much underestimated Rambo.”
The pirates underestimated Rambo sure, but some of them were already point their guns at him, Rambo was able to shoot them all before any of them could pull the trigger in Ethan's case most were not even paying attention to him, He shot 4 guys (Rambo shot 5)first a guy pointing a gun at cop not at him, then he shoot the other 3, the one in middle was still drawing his weapon and the other 2 even managed to pull the trigger, i would say that Rambo was able to draw and shoot faster than Hunt.
“Again he has the element of surprise there whereas Ethan's opponents knew how dangerous he was.”
The thing is that he did all of that with a Shotgun which doesn't have a good fire rate. Also the Sicarios knew he was a dangerous individual.
“This just speaks of his strength and endurance more rather than his marksmanship. Sure, it's still an impressive feat of marksmanship. But it's nothing compared to Ethan's drone feat. Because Ethan would have to contend with disorientation, sunlight hitting his eyes, and the speed of the drone which moves at subsonic speeds.”
Hip firing in and hitting the targets in those circumstances requires a lot of skill and precision. Also Rambo was able to shot down a Mil Mi-24 Hind Attack Helicopter they fly at 335 km/h (Subsonic) and he did this using a DShk which is a not very accurate weapon
“Deleted scenes don't count here because they are considered non canon hence why they are called deleted scenes.”
Fair enough, but this is not unbelievable for Rambo, he can do insane shots with his bow, like hitting playing cards across a barn.
Also he has literally 100% accuracy with his bow, he literally never missed a shot with it in all the films. But yeah you have the total right to disregard the deleted scene.
“You're ignoring many things. The fact that Ethan is so knowledgable about Eskrima to the point he can teach it to a potential IMF Recruit shows how formidable he is with Eskrima. Granted he didn't show much but as someone who have seen Eskrima first hand, Ethan knows what he was doing considering he was in a defensive stance and blocked every attack coming his way. He was also quick and agile with it which is how Eskrima should be. Anyways thanks for clarifying about Rambo's fighting style because when I looked it more, it's just not how Eskrima is suppose to be but when I find out it's not Eskrima, it starts to make sense. Still this is a tie. Ethan has statements and implications of him being extremely good at Eskrima to the point he can teach you with it whereas Rambo has the feats for Krabi Krabong.”
Don’t get me wrong, I know that Ethan is good at Escrima. I just don’t see him beating or tying with Rambo via just this feat, Rambo is probably more experienced in those kinds of fights, he lived decades in Thailand, and probably did at least a dozen of fights. I would also say that Rambo is stronger, more durable and at least as fast as Ethan.
“Ethan faced the same thing but also had to contend with Walker grabbing onto his foot and Walker's a 6FT Behemoth of a man.”
You don’t need to explain further, I agree with you Ethan is the best climber here.
“The fact that Ethan has no training or knowledge piloting a helicopter yet was doing twists and turns and maneuvers that even expertly trained pilots can only hope to do is what makes him on the same level as Rambo. Not only that, his Helicopter has no weaponry like Rambo yet he still takes down the enemy chopper that he was chasing.”
He put Walker’s chopper down by hamming his own against it, while is certain something difficult to do, especially when Walker’s chopper was trying to get away from him, but i still don’t think this puts him at an expert level, also he messed up sometimes while doing the maneuvers, Here's an example
He nearly got himself killed here, clearly an amateur mistake.
“Evade because of bad aim and help from his allies. Rambo didn't even use proper maneuvers anything that Gunship threw at him.”
Bad aim is not a very good argument IMO. I could say that about any action movie bad guy ever, including the one in MI movies.
But that’s not the case here. First, those guys were Spetsnaz. I'm pretty sure their aim are first rate (In fact they were even able to hit Rambo’s chopper), and second, Podovsky is flying a Mil Mi-24 Hind Attack Helicopter, The Mil Mi 24 attack helicopters are equipped with guided missiles, so is even more precise than Walker and his machine gun. Rambo “not doing” flashy maneuvers here, is due to movie limitations at the time, they did not have CGI, so they couldn’t make bullets or missiles passing close to him while he dodges, but the scene’s intention here is clear, he is avoiding Podovsky’s attacks.
“Still nothing compared to Ethan managing to crash his already-on-fire helicopter against the enemy chopper who was trying to get away from him because he was trying to take them down through collision.”
Again this feat, while good, is not really that impressive. I'll say that Rambo piloting and doing an emergency landing with an unfamiliar helicopter full of people and managing to safely land the chopper without even hurting anybody in the process is far more impressive and requires a lot more skill.
“Yeah this is where I disagree. The fact that Ethan has no training and knowledge of any kind of piloting a helicopter yet doing maneuvers, twists, and turns that even expert pilots can only hope to do is what gives him the edge against Rambo's trained and experience. Simply put, this is prodigious talent vs hardwork. It's a tie here.”
I honestly can’t see this as a tie. Ethan is a fast learner and what he did here with his inexperience was a miracle but Rambo superior feats and better experience will grant him the win.
“Did you just forget Ethan jumped into a lightning storm while contending with Walker's inexperience with HALO Jump? Yeah this just means his jump was already more difficult and dangerous from the get-go. Walker got hit by a lightning strike and Ethan had to save his big ass.”
Yeah but Ethan jumped from 25000 feet, he had some time on his side, Rambo on the other hand jumped from just 250 feet, that’s just 76 meters, meaning he only had roughly 4 seconds to open his chute and safely land, that’s probably impossible to do jumping from an aircraft.
“You're forgetting many things. For one, Ethan didn't perform the HALO Jump as planned and only pulled his chute after the systems tells him which would have killed him but didn't. Ethan explained it best here.”
I hardly believe Hunt was being literal here, especially by the phrase he chose to use here, he was just giving Walker a tough advice in something that was potentially fatal.
"No, watch it again, the second guy was not pointing his gun at him, and most of them only thought of shooting him after he shot the guy, Also iirc they didn’t know he was the legendary Ethan Hunt, they believed he was John Lark. Rambo shot 5 guys in less than 2 seconds."
- I've analyzed this feat numerous times. They are pointing their guns at him but the second guy was poising himself to finally fire instead of just aiming casually for intimidation and the script literally shows that they were ready to kill Ethan if he TRIES anything to which he did. Regarding they do not know Ethan, they still know him as the mass mudering terrorist known as John Lark whom has ties to western power. In conclusion, Ethan shoot four guys whom were already pointing guns and ready to kill him if he ever tries anything along with knowing how dangerous he could be.
"SPAS-12 Shotgun indeed have a high fire rate for Shotgun, but it can't be compared to Semi-automatic pistol, And no, the Sicarios did know who he was, since they knew he had infiltrated Victor’s guarded house and killed him and his guards."
- Bruh are you using a feat from Rambo Last Blood to explain a feat from Rambo First Blood 2? And Spas-12 still has a very fast fire rate and actually faster than some pistols.
"Rambo’s DShK is far less accurate than Ethan’s G36K tho, which makes his shot just as difficult."
- Yet you're also forgetting three main factors that helped him. 1: The Helicopter was slowing down. 2: The Helicopter was near and right in front of him. 3: The Helicopter is literally a big target.
"Ethan not losing accuracy while dual wielding is good, but Rambo is the kind of guy that easily shoots his targets while hip firing (that is, not even aiming!)"
- Yeah the thing is, Ethan can do the same.
"Sparring is not the same thing as a fight, also Ethan was sparring with people far less experienced than him, while Rambo was fighting with people with equal or more experience than him."
- We don't really know how skilled these people are and we have no statements that indicates of any such.
"Rambo is stronger than Ethan, Rambo can damage guys like Kourov, who was able to tank an explosive arrow albeit using a human shield, still Rambo’s explosive arrows can one shot vehicles, and heavily armored choppers. His arrows can also nearly vaporize a dude completely which requires a ridiculous amount of energy, so a normal human even when using a human shield would be obliterated by the explosion that Kourov tanked. Rambo can easily break a guy’s arm with a punch, he can break a man’s collar bone with his fingers (he is old here btw), and kill people with 1 punch."
- Kourov didn't exactly tank it and he used a human shield. You'll be surprised at how durable the human body can be. Not only that, he was weakened and more vulnerable after that, no wonder Rambo can casually manage to deliver a lot of damage. And Ethan can literally do the same to every feat you have listed except killing people with 1 punch. And Rambo hasn't done that either.
"Easily break necks? Rambo not only can do _the _same, but he can also do it only using a thin vine, or he can just straight up rip a person’s throat out with his bare hands, I don’t know if Ethan strikes can be compared with sledgehammers, i mean sledgehammers can’t break Riot Armor, but neither did Ethan. He didn't break the Riot Armor, he only knocked out the guards inside of it. But even if Ethan's strikes are stronger than sledgehammers, Rambo’s are stronger than grenades."
- Meanwhile Paris can casually do it by just twisting and grabbing ahold of it. And Ethan is way stronger than Paris. It can be compared to sledgehammer strikes because there have been tests conducted to riot gear armor and it shows users or wearers couldn't get knocked out or receive any pain or damage from sledgehammer strikes. Meanwhile Ethan Hunt can. Rambo's strikes aren't superior to Ethan nor as strong as grenades.
"Yeah I know the difference between durability and endurance and I'll say that Rambo is more durable. Rambo is shown to get weakened from getting hit by a bullet? Have you really seen his movies? He was shot in the leg by a FN MAG machine gun and could still fight (The FN MAG uses 7.62 x 51 rounds just like the M60, which are show to break through bullet proof glass). In his 70’s, he was shot in the stomach and in the shoulder by assault rifles, and he tore the bullets out of his body with his bare hands, and could still fight, hell The man was able to tank a high caliber round, fully penetrating his shoulder and continued to fight."
- *States he knows the difference between durability and endurance before showing a lot of endurance feats and then passing it off as durability*
Like bro? Really? All you've shown here in this one are all endurance feats, like any normal humans, his body reacts the same when getting hit by a bullet. But what he does AFTER getting hit by a bullet is what's superhuman and makes it an endurance feat. Lastly, I have always been in agreement that Rambo takes endurance.
"Rambo was able to survive the collision and the explosion of his tank against a helicopter (note that the tank was completely destroyed from the inside too). Rambo was also able to survive being hit by the shockwave of a Tallboy bomb explosion, the same shockwave destroyed multiple small trees before immediately catching him. He most likely tanked a portion of this explosion since the script says he had no way to escape. He also scales above Lewis. Lewis survived an explosion after stepping on a mine. (The type of mines that the Burmese soldiers were using, could blow people into little pieces, and not only did Lewis not lose any limb, he also was still able to fight after that). So Rambo got better durability"
- Tanks were made for such collisions or damage and it wasn't really destroyed at all. Regarding the shockwave, you can easily tell Rambo is already at a survivable distance considering you can see the tree around him weren't destroyed. He didn't exactly tanked the explosion and if you used the full context of the script, it was playing it for dramatic effect since Rambo did find a route that lets him survive because the movie and the later part of the script tells so. Lastly you have given no reasonable argument or evidence why Rambo scales above Lewis nor he scales to him. So far most of these feats are endurance. I'll say mostly because Rambo getting hit by that shockwave without getting injured is actually a durability feat despite the shockwave being at a survivable distance. Anyways this is what actual durability is.
Ethan can shrug off something like this without breaking a bone or suffering any injuries at all. Not even a scratch. All it gave Ethan was headache and dizziness.
Ethan was also eating up Sean Ambrose's strikes with a rock and Sean is as strong as Ethan whom is established to be so strong his strikes can knock out people wearing riot gear armor, even managing to crack bulletproof glass during the scuffle. Before you try saying it is not bulletproof glass, highly secured prisons like the one featured in Ghost Protocol always use bulletproof glass according to numerous ex convicts and prison guards. Heck a quick google can easily confirm this.
Ethan Hunt can also easily survive a car crash like this without any injuries at all or getting knocked out. No real life human can survive something like this.
Can also casually tank getting hit by a speeding car without getting any injuries at all.
Also survived crashes like these without suffering any broken bones or any serious injuries
Ethan also survived a Helicopter Crash although he is stated to have broken a rib from this. But still, the fact remains that a real life Helicopter Pilot states that Ethan Hunt could never survive a crash like this in YouTube and Reddit. Heck a lot of articles pointed out that Ethan could never survive a crash like this. Except he did because Ethan is just built differently compared to a real life human.
Now that we have established that Ethan is built like brick shit house, let's take it up the notch further by being so durable he can ram himself through a speeding train car without getting any injuries at all other than a simple headache and dizziness. The force Ethan tanking here is much worse than anything Rambo has taken. If this was any other human in this scenario, we would just be seeing a huge splatter of blood and guts.
"I didn't know that Ethan could dodge bullets but I don't doubt it either. But Rambo can do it too, he is able to react and duck AKM gunfire before it's bullets hit a stone, dove into water before a grenade, shot by a grenade launcher, could hit a wall, and dodge it a direct gunshot from a M16, the script also confirm this."
- While it's impressive, the problem is that Ethan can dodge bullets at close range and can even dodge missiles, something Rambo hasn't done. Even when his back was turned, Ethan in his prime was dodging missiles and bullets. He can even outrun bullets for a short moment as well.
Heck it's literally part of the objective for the player in Mission Impossible Operation Surma to dodge missiles as Ethan Hunt. And yes this game is canon according to JJ Abrams and the comic is canon according to Brian De Palma as he had personally supervised it.
"I know Tom did, he's crazy lol, but what makes the scene really impressive is the CGI addition of the Mountains and Bullet sprays, in Rambo 2 scene you can see some maneuvers but nothing as impressive because of the limitations of that era."
- You're also forgetting the way Ethan dodged the helicopter. According to pilots, helicopters can't instantly move out of gunfire yet Ethan does this. So it's either Ethan was predicting when Walker was about to fire, or Walker's a badshot which doesn't make sense since he is a highly trained experienced CIA SAD Unit. I'm guessing it's the former because it fits more to Ethan's character.
"Rambo being experienced pilot is yet another advantage over Ethan, Yeah Ethan did well against that trained pilot but i don't believe he had the same level experience as Rambo, i mean the guy was flying helicopters during the Vietnam war, they were critical for combat during that time, and nearly 12000 helicopters saw action in the Vietnam War, and the U.S records show 5,607 helicopter losses in total during that war. So it is very hard for me to believe that a newbie would defeat such an experienced and battle-hardened pilot."
- Ethan is a newbie for sure but he's also a prodigy and has the talent to outskill experienced and trained pilots. So it isn't all that outlandish that its a tie.
"I hardly believe he literally saw someone’s kneecaps going through their skull. Off topic tho, Ethan’s military career is nothing to scoff at, but Rambo also has an impressive resume at this as well, He specialized in light weapons, and guerrilla warfare, was cross trained as a medic, and got an helicopter and language qualification. He was in Special Forces too, he was a Green Beret but he was also a part of a MACV-SOG unit known as Baker Team, and received Delta Force training."
- I mean the heights US Rangers mostly jump out of, this scenario is pretty possible. While Rambo definitely has impressive military career but Ethan is probably the most impressive. He got into Ranger School, finally became a US Army Ranger in the 3rd Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment. Fought in the Gulf Wars and was a Ranger for 5 years. After that, Ethan was employed by the CIA as an SAD Unit and partook in many Black Operations which exposed Ethan of the many corruption happening within America hence why Colonel Briggs introduced him to the IMF where he was trained and mentored by Jim Phelps who's literally the OG MI Protagonist along with Briggs.
"also gathered an extensive list of and accolades during his time in the army. He had 59 confirmed kills, and received 2 Silver Stars, 4 Bronze Stars, 4 Purple Hearts, a Distinguished Service Cross, and the Medal of Honor. No to mention the fact that he fought in 3 wars : The Vietnam War, The Soviet–Afghan War, and The Civil War In Burma."
- While Rambo's kills are definitely high since Ethan's confirmed kills are pretty much redacted and him having a detailed military career with medals and all that but remember Ethan lives in a shadowed world compared to Rambo. He doesn't get medals for the things he does because first and foremost Ethan is a Black Ops Operative. Not only that, IMF Missions are literally things that prevents wars and world destruction. Rambo may be the guy to fight wars but Ethan is the guy who ends them if they were to happen or prevents them from happening in the first place. After all, the IMF is the reason why the Soviet collapsed faster and earlier than in the real world along with the fact that Neo Nazis never existed.
“I've analyzed this feat numerous times. They are pointing their guns at him but the second guy was poising himself to finally fire instead of just aiming casually for intimidation and the script literally shows that they were ready to kill Ethan if he TRIES anything to which he did. Regarding they do not know Ethan, they still know him as the mass mudering terrorist known as John Lark whom has ties to western power. In conclusion, Ethan shoot four guys whom were already pointing guns and ready to kill him if he ever tries anything along with knowing how dangerous he could be.”
Then you need to analyze again
Here you can see that the last guy is the only pointing his gun at him, the middle guy still has his gun on his waist and is not even looking at him, and the first one has his gun down
See? The guy in the middle was still drawing his weapon. Ethan’s feat goes like this:
first, He shoots a guy who’s not even looking at him and is pointing a gun at a police officer, then he shoots last guy who indeed was the only pointing his gun at him, and he even managed to fire once, then he shoots the middle guy who recently turned at him and was still drawing his weapon, and then he shoots the first guy who recently taken aim and the first guy was also able to shoot once, so this feat is no way more impressive than Rambo’s.
“Bruh are you using a feat from Rambo Last Blood to explain a feat from Rambo First Blood 2? And Spas-12 still has a very fast fire rate and actually faster than some pistols.”
I’ve used this last blood feat since my first response to you, and i wasn’t explaining a feat from Rambo FB 2, anyway, the Spas-12 doesn’t have more fire rate than a semi automatic pistol.
“Yet you're also forgetting three main factors that helped him. 1: The Helicopter was slowing down. 2: The Helicopter was near and right in front of him. 3: The Helicopter is literally a big target.”
The Chopper wasn’t slowing down, that was just the movie showing the scene more slowly to be more clear, but the other 2 points are fair.
“Yeah the thing is, Ethan can do the same.”
The same is a stretch, Ethan missed 3 targets and only hit one, Rambo shot 3 in quick succession while carrying a child nonetheless.
“Kourov didn't exactly tank it and he used a human shield. You'll be surprised at how durable the human body can be. Not only that, he was weakened and more vulnerable after that, no wonder Rambo can casually manage to deliver a lot of damage. “
Like i said before he didn’t tanked head on but he definitely tanked a portion, i know how durable a human body can be but we know that Rambo’s explosive arrows can literally semi-vaporize that same human body, and blow an armored chopper to pieces, you can shoot that thing close 5 men, and the five would explode, so yeah Kourov is a tank for surviving that. He was damaged, yes,, but weakened and more vulnerable? I don't think so, the man was on fire when fought Rambo and he didn't seem to be feeling pain at all. Rambo was the one in disadvantage here. He was the one who did have a worse injury on his stomach.
“And Ethan can literally do the same to every feat you have listed except killing people with 1 punch. And Rambo hasn't done that either.”
I never saw Ethan do anything remotely similar to rip someone’s throat off, break bones using his fingers or ram a pointy but blunt steel pipe through a guy’s cranium. You can bet that Rambo killed that guy and any guy at that brothel, he was bloodlusted as hell in his quest for Gabriela, and in the aftermath we see the Martinez brothers questioning everyone that was there if they saw something, and guess what? There were only women, if there was a man alive, you can bet he would be there being interrogated. Hell, even Lewis was able to kill a man with a headbutt.
“Meanwhile Paris can casually do it by just twisting and grabbing ahold of it.”
So can Rambo, he’s able to do it just by grabbing a guy’s jaw and twist to the side, or even with a thin vine.
“Ethan is way stronger than Paris. It can be compared to sledgehammer strikes because there have been tests conducted to riot gear armor and it shows users or wearers couldn't get knocked out or receive any pain or damage from sledgehammer strikes.”
Can you show me those tests? Also Ethan only knocked out one guard, with a elbow to the back of the neck, the other he throwed to the stairs but yeah he was visibly damaging them. But i would like to see the tests
“Meanwhile Ethan Hunt can. Rambo's strikes aren't superior to Ethan nor as strong as grenades.”
It sure is, since he scales above guys like Lewis.
*States he knows the difference between durability and endurance before showing a lot of endurance feats and then passing it off as durability*
The feats that I showed you serve as both, for example Rambo was able to tank a high caliber shot on his shoulder, and the expansion of that should have ripped his whole arm and shoulder off, so this is a durability feat too.
“Like bro? Really? All you've shown here in this one are all endurance feats, like any normal humans, his body reacts the same when getting hit by a bullet.’
No his body does not react the same, if it did, he would have lost his shoulder along with his arm.
“Tanks were made for such collisions or damage and it wasn't really destroyed at all.”
The Chopper was going at maximum speed it would generate that much energy at impact, the Tank was also going at maximum speed, and would generate that much energy at impact so a collision between the 2 would produce at least 37 megajoules of energy, or course Rambo did not tanked the full impact here since he was inside the tank, and this is still not able to fully penetrate through the tank’s armor according to this (apparently 110 megajoules is required), but still a human that close to the impact would surely die. There have been soldiers who died or were injured by less dangerous tank crashes, But there’s more, Rambo’s tank was already damaged by a mortar and by a 9M17 Fleyta missile which is capable of damaging a tank, so it's armor was no longer 100%, and during the crash we know that Rambo was inside the Tank's front part which exploded from the outside and he was knocked back by it, later we see the tank heavily damaged inside and Rambo cleary hurt. So this still is an outstanding superhuman durability feat.
“Regarding the shockwave, you can easily tell Rambo is already at a survivable distance considering you can see the tree around him weren't destroyed.”
The shockwave destroys the small trees and in literally less than a second after destroying those trees hits Rambo. There's no way that the shockwave would lose that much power in milliseconds, so yeah, Rambo also got hit with that force, which is equivalent to 10 megajoules of energy. Here's the feat in detail.
Then only AFTER the shockwave already hit him we begin to see losing its force. Also this shockwave while very powerful would not be enough to destroy a big tree, which needs more energy.
He didn't exactly tanked the explosion and if you used the full context of the script, it was playing it for dramatic effect since Rambo did find a route that lets him survive because the movie and the later part of the script tells so.
I believe he did not fully tanked but tanked a portion of it, and no, the script and the movie are totally ambiguous about this. Both never stated that he found a way out. In the movie we don't immediately see him after the mine shaft collapses by the blast, but when it cuts to him, he's fine. in the script after the mine collapses, it only says this about Rambo, you can read the full script if you want.
“Lastly you have given no reasonable argument or evidence why Rambo scales above Lewis nor he scales to him. So far most of these feats are endurance.”
I did not present any argument for why Rambo scales above Lewis because I thought it would not be necessary for anyone who’s familiar with the Rambo franchise but, Rambo scales above anyone in his verse, only Kourov and Yushin were shown to be comparable to him. Rambo is stated to be kind of a super soldier by Sly himself, the best combat vet by Colonel Trautman, and to be the most dangerous man on the planet.
and if you want a more direct scale, remember the Tatmadaw force soldiers were able to hurt Lewis, and this is what Rambo can do to them.
“I'll say mostly because Rambo getting hit by that shockwave without getting injured is actually a durability feat despite the shockwave being at a survivable distance. Anyways this is what actual durability is.”
It was not at a survivable distance as I told you above but let’s move on.
“Ethan can shrug off something like this without breaking a bone or suffering any injuries at all. Not even a scratch. All it gave Ethan was headache and dizziness.”
Rambo was able to tank a much higher fall, Due to the height of fall and with the way physics works, he survived an extremely powerful force, he landed on branches which are small, allowing for little force to travel through them meaning it really didn't stop the impact.
“Ethan was also eating up Sean Ambrose's strikes with a rock and Sean is as strong as Ethan whom is established to be so strong his strikes can knock out people wearing riot gear armor, even managing to crack bulletproof glass during the scuffle.”
Rambo was able to tank attacks from the stick fighter using a fighting stick which was made of teak surrounded by metal the tick fighter was strong as him, who is strong enough to damage guys that can take explosions.
“Before you try saying it is not bulletproof glass, highly secured prisons like the one featured in Ghost Protocol always use bulletproof glass according to numerous ex convicts and prison guards. Heck a quick google can easily confirm this.”
I thought it was not bulletproof, because it was confirmed on film, but yeah your argument makes sense, but i just wanna say something, this is valid for Rambo too, in first blood, when he escaping the police station, he was able to throw a cop at window destroying the window and the support beams in the process, and some police stations have bulletproof windows, not sure if it was the case here.
One thing that i am sure tho, is the fact that Rambo was able to crack a helicopter windshield by throwing a small rock at a large distance, if you don’t know, cracking a car windshield is already difficult, but a helicopter one is much more harder, the helicopter that was following Rambo here was a Bell 206, which has a Polycarbonate windshield, which are impact resistant, in fact bullet proof glasses are made with polycarbonates, usually Lexan polymer, which has a tensile strength 66MPa, Bones (which Rambo easily break with his punches or with his fingers) in comparison have a tensile strength of 150MPa. Rambo was also strong enough to pull out an iron gate out of its place. Iron has a tensile strength of 540 MPa.
“Ethan Hunt can also easily survive a car crash like this without any injuries at all or getting knocked out. No real life human can survive something like this.”
“Can also casually tank getting hit by a speeding car without getting any injuries at all.”
“Also survived crashes like these without suffering any broken bones or any serious injuries”
“Ethan also survived a Helicopter Crash although he is stated to have broken a rib from this. But still, the fact remains that a real life Helicopter Pilot states that Ethan Hunt could never survive a crash like this in YouTube and Reddit. Heck a lot of articles pointed out that Ethan could never survive a crash like this. Except he did because Ethan is just built differently compared to a real life human.”
None of those crashes seem deadlier than than Chopper and Tank collision that produced a much higher impact and a explosion also while his car crashes were violent, much of the impact were absolved by the airbag, the first helicopter fall was cushioned by sliding in the snow and the second was more impressive but nothing as extreme as other Rambo dura feats.
“Now that we have established that Ethan is built like brick shit house, let's take it up the notch further by being so durable he can ram himself through a speeding train car without getting any injuries at all other than a simple headache and dizziness. The force Ethan tanking here is much worse than anything Rambo has taken. If this was any other human in this scenario, we would just be seeing a huge splatter of blood and guts.”
First he didn’t ram himself through a train car, he rammed himself to a train window This doesn't even trump Lewis surviving a mine blast that can explode a human to pieces or Kourov tanking a portion of an explosion that can decimate a man. Even if Ethan was hit upfront by 10 car train at average speed (which is clearly not the case here) it would only put him at the 11 megajoules range, Rambo tanking the tallboy shockwave puts him at 10 megajoules. Hardly any difference but again Ethan’s feat doesn’t even come close to that since he only rammed himself to a train window sideways.
“While it's impressive, the problem is that Ethan can dodge bullets at close range and can even dodge missiles, something Rambo hasn't done. Even when his back was turned, Ethan in his prime was dodging missiles and bullets. He can even outrun bullets for a short moment as well.”
Well for first 2 comic panels Ethan is indeed dodging bullets but from a 9mm handgun, which typically has a muzzle velocity 1000+ feet per second, Rambo dodged a M16 and other assault rifles, the M16 for example has a muzzle velocity of 3150 ft/s. The third comic panel looked like the guy was just missing. The part that Ethan was running in the prison corridor also looked like the men were missing him, but here’s Rambo briefly outrunning helicopter gunfire.
“Heck it's literally part of the objective for the player in Mission Impossible Operation Surma to dodge missiles as Ethan Hunt. And yes this game is canon according to JJ Abrams and the comic is canon according to Brian De Palma as he had personally supervised it.”
Can you show me the sources? I mean I'm not doubting but I never came across those informations. It would be nice to have them. Now for the missile dodge thing, In the comic A New Kind Of War which is part of First Kill comic series, (which is canon since Sly himself co-wrote it, and represents his vision of Rambo’s past) we see that us soldier from Trautman’s Platoon was able to react and eject from his aircraft before multiple missiles could hit him. and as you know, Rambo scales above that.
“You're also forgetting the way Ethan dodged the helicopter. According to pilots, helicopters can't instantly move out of gunfire yet Ethan does this. So it's either Ethan was predicting when Walker was about to fire, or Walker's a badshot which doesn't make sense since he is a highly trained experienced CIA SAD Unit. I'm guessing it's the former because it fits more to Ethan's character.”
Rambo was also able to move out of the way from Podovsky’s helicopter guided missiles. Also while Walker is a good shot he was having trouble to aim due the helicopter's constant movement.
“Ethan is a newbie for sure but he's also a prodigy and has the talent to outskill experienced and trained pilots. So it isn't all that outlandish that its a tie.”
I respectfully disagree.
“I mean the heights US Rangers mostly jump out of, this scenario is pretty possible. While Rambo definitely has impressive military career but Ethan is probably the most impressive. He got into Ranger School, finally became a US Army Ranger in the 3rd Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment. Fought in the Gulf Wars and was a Ranger for 5 years. After that, Ethan was employed by the CIA as an SAD Unit and partook in many Black Operations which exposed Ethan of the many corruption happening within America hence why Colonel Briggs introduced him to the IMF where he was trained and mentored by Jim Phelps who's literally the OG MI Protagonist along with Briggs.”
Let’s see Ethan was an Army Ranger, Rambo in comparison was a Green Beret MACV-SOG and Delta Force Operator. Ethan was in the Gulf Wars, Rambo has participated in the Vietnam war, Soviet-Afghan war, and Burma’s civil war. Each one of those wars had a death toll of at least 1 million, while the Gulf Wars only had 100k. Rambo being MACV-SOG also did numerous highly classified missions aka “black operations” since The force was above top secret, its existence was denied by the US government for over 20 years, even families of MACV-SOG members were not informed if their loved ones were killed in action and the definition of black ops is “a secret mission or campaign carried out by a military, governmental, or other organization, typically one in which the organization conceals or denies its involvement” and not only that Rambo recon mission FB part 2 was also black ops, Rambo’s mission in 3 was straight up unofficial.
“While Rambo's kills are definitely high since Ethan's confirmed kills are pretty much redacted and him having a detailed military career with medals and all that but remember Ethan lives in a shadowed world compared to Rambo. He doesn't get medals for the things he does because first and foremost Ethan is a Black Ops Operative. Not only that, IMF Missions are literally things that prevents wars and world destruction. Rambo may be the guy to fight wars but Ethan is the guy who ends them if they were to happen or prevents them from happening in the first place. After all, the IMF is the reason why the Soviet collapsed faster and earlier than in the real world along with the fact that Neo Nazis never existed.”
You said “Rambo may be the guy to fight wars but Ethan is the guy who ends them if they were to happen or prevents them from happening in the first place” and while this is true i don't it diminishes Rambo on any way, Yeah their jobs are different but both of their roles are essential, the thing is the IMF works much more like an intelligence agency, and while Rambo is an expert on Light Weapons, Guerrila Warfare, Psychological Warfare, Foreign Internal Defense, Special Reconnaissance, Direct Action, Counter-Terrorism, Counter-Proliferation, Rescue Operations, Capture or Elimination of Enemy Forces, Covert Action, Target Attacks Behind The Lines, and Intelligence Gathering. His primary job is simple… Kill, and it’s heavily implied in the franchise, that he is literally born for it.
"first, He shoots a guy who’s not even looking at him and is pointing a gun at a police officer, then he shoots last guy who indeed was the only pointing his gun at him, and he even managed to fire once, then he shoots the middle guy who recently turned at him and was still drawing his weapon, and then he shoots the first guy who recently taken aim and the first guy was also able to shoot once, so this feat is no way more impressive than Rambo’s"
- Hmm you are right.
"I’ve used this last blood feat since my first response to you, and i wasn’t explaining a feat from Rambo FB 2, anyway, the Spas-12 doesn’t have more fire rate than a semi automatic pistol."
- I said faster than some pistols. Some pistols. Because Spas 12 has a fire rate of 300 rounds per minute. There are some pistols lower than that along with some revolvers. Still that fire rate is fast enough to do the things Rambo did with that shotgun.
"The Chopper wasn’t slowing down, that was just the movie showing the scene more slowly to be more clear, but the other 2 points are fair."
- Hence why the drone feat is superior.
"The same is a stretch, Ethan missed 3 targets and only hit one, Rambo shot 3 in quick succession while carrying a child nonetheless."
- Maybe because Ethan was fighting elite international bounty hunters? As established in the MI Universe, Ethan isn't the only one who can dodge bullets and react to trigger fingers.
"Like i said before he didn’t tanked head on but he definitely tanked a portion, i know how durable a human body can be but we know that Rambo’s explosive arrows can literally semi-vaporize that same human body, and blow an armored chopper to pieces, you can shoot that thing close 5 men, and the five would explode, so yeah Kourov is a tank for surviving that. He was damaged, yes,, but weakened and more vulnerable? I don't think so, the man was on fire when fought Rambo and he didn't seem to be feeling pain at all. Rambo was the one in disadvantage here. He was the one who did have a worse injury on his stomach."
- I dunno, man. When humans get injured, they get vulnerable and weaker. Same thing applies to Rambo and Ethan. I don't know why it wouldn't apply to Kourov.
"I never saw Ethan do anything remotely similar to rip someone’s throat off, break bones using his fingers or ram a pointy but blunt steel pipe through a guy’s cranium. You can bet that Rambo killed that guy and any guy at that brothel, he was bloodlusted as hell in his quest for Gabriela, and in the aftermath we see the Martinez brothers questioning everyone that was there if they saw something, and guess what? There were only women, if there was a man alive, you can bet he would be there being interrogated. Hell, even Lewis was able to kill a man with a headbutt."
- I should have worded out things differently. My point is that, Ethan can potentially do the things you have mentioned due to the strength feats he had displayed. Because all the things Rambo is displaying are within the same force range Ethan did. We have seen Ethan hit harder thansledgehammers(MI Ghost Protocol Prison fight), lift three people at the same time(MI 3 Helicopter Scene and MI Dead Reckoning Train scene), easily crack people's neck(Paris Feat), and break bone(Kurt Hendrick's fight). However since Ethan isn't a bloodthirsty brutal killer like Rambo, that and he's PG 13 rather than Rated R, we wouldn't be seeing him fight and kill people the way Rambo does it.
"So can Rambo, he’s able to do it just by grabbing a guy’s jaw and twist to the side, or even with a thin vine."
- The thing is, Ethan is much stronger than Paris.
"Can you show me those tests? Also Ethan only knocked out one guard, with a elbow to the back of the neck, the other he throwed to the stairs but yeah he was visibly damaging them. But i would like to see the tests"
- I can no longer find the video on Reddit. But I do have anecdotes that says the exact same thing. Although they've added that a two good strikes from Sledgehammers would eventually break the armor and hurt its user. Still it's pretty impressive Ethan can hurt people with riot gear armor using his bare hands only considering what these things are suppose to tank on a daily basis.
https://havengear.com/blog/can-riot-suits-provide-versatility-and-protection/
"It sure is, since he scales above guys like Lewis."
- How tho? I haven't seen an argument for that.
"The feats that I showed you serve as both, for example Rambo was able to tank a high caliber shot on his shoulder, and the expansion of that should have ripped his whole arm and shoulder off, so this is a durability feat too."
- I see. But Ethan also tanked a similar round in close range, the Bone Doctor shot Ethan at close range with an AK. He was hit in the back and barely reacted to it. You can see a subtle flinch when he was running.
Heck he was casually making phone calls while bleeding out in the Phone Booth.
"No his body does not react the same, if it did, he would have lost his shoulder along with his arm."
- Fair point.
"The Chopper was going at maximum speed it would generate that much energy at impact, the Tank was also going at maximum speed, and would generate that much energy at impact so a collision between the 2 would produce at least 37 megajoules of energy, or course Rambo did not tanked the full impact here since he was inside the tank, and this is still not able to fully penetrate through the tank’s armor according to this (apparently 110 megajoules is required), but still a human that close to the impact would surely die. There have been soldiers who died or were injured by less dangerous tank crashes, But there’s more, Rambo’s tank was already damaged by a mortar and by a 9M17 Fleyta missile which is capable of damaging a tank, so it's armor was no longer 100%, and during the crash we know that Rambo was inside the Tank's front part which exploded from the outside and he was knocked back by it, later we see the tank heavily damaged inside and Rambo cleary hurt. So this still is an outstanding superhuman durability feat."
- Just like Ethan Hunt survived something like this. Actually even with the air bag, the force generated here would have instantly killed Ethan if he was a normal real life human.
"The shockwave destroys the small trees and in literally less than a second after destroying those trees hits Rambo. There's no way that the shockwave would lose that much power in milliseconds, so yeah, Rambo also got hit with that force, which is equivalent to 10 megajoules of energy. Here's the feat in detail.
Then only AFTER the shockwave already hit him we begin to see losing its force. Also this shockwave while very powerful would not be enough to destroy a big tree, which needs more energy."
- Bruh you can literally the trees around him weren't swept off at all. Meaning Rambo is at a surviveable distance. You're only looking at the trees that were close at the blast, not where Rambo is at.
"I believe he did not fully tanked but tanked a portion of it, and no, the script and the movie are totally ambiguous about this. Both never stated that he found a way out. In the movie we don't immediately see him after the mine shaft collapses by the blast, but when it cuts to him, he's fine. in the script after the mine collapses, it only says this about Rambo, you can read the full script if you want."
- Nah this is not ambigious at all. Because you can see Trautman analyzing the tunnel and how it's structured which led him to believe Rambo was alive.
You can even see Rambo was looking at something in the tunnels, meaning he had found a way out. And the fact that he survived the explosion without a scratch and seems to have ended up on a different side of the tunnels shows he did found a way. This isn't ambigious at all, the information are all there.
"I did not present any argument for why Rambo scales above Lewis because I thought it would not be necessary for anyone who’s familiar with the Rambo franchise but, Rambo scales above anyone in his verse, only Kourov and Yushin were shown to be comparable to him. Rambo is stated to be kind of a super soldier by Sly himself, the best combat vet by Colonel Trautman, and to be the most dangerous man on the planet."
- I never really paid attention to the sequels because they're just so bad and just changed Rambo into a macho action hero instead of a believable and grounded tragic figure that embodies disillusioned vietnam war vets. Anyways your logic seems sound until you start implying Rambo can tank a landmine without injuries. Also Rambo's super soldier statements seems tame when compared to Ethan Hunt who's described to be a specialist without equal, a living manifesation of destiny, and a living incarnation of chaos.
"and if you want a more direct scale, remember the Tatmadaw force soldiers were able to hurt Lewis, and this is what Rambo can do to them."
- I still don't buy Rambo tanking land mines. Because the logic is flawed along with the arguments.
"It was not at a survivable distance as I told you above but let’s move on."
- It was tho.
"Rambo was able to tank a much higher fall, Due to the height of fall and with the way physics works, he survived an extremely powerful force, he landed on branches which are small, allowing for little force to travel through them meaning it really didn't stop the impact."
- You're forgetting that Ethan flung himself from a speeding motorcycle to Sean first before falling at that height. Experts states Ethan and Sean would have been mangled brutalized corpses at that point even without the fall.
"Rambo was able to tank attacks from the stick fighter using a fighting stick which was made of teak surrounded by metal the tick fighter was strong as him, who is strong enough to damage guys that can take explosions."
- Meanwhile Ethan Hunt can tank steel pipes from people whom are as strong as him, specifically Decoy Lark and Paris.
"I thought it was not bulletproof, because it was confirmed on film, but yeah your argument makes sense, but i just wanna say something, this is valid for Rambo too, in first blood, when he escaping the police station, he was able to throw a cop at window destroying the window and the support beams in the process, and some police stations have bulletproof windows, not sure if it was the case here."
- Since bulletproof windows in Police Stations are uncommon and this literally took place in a peaceful town where there's no violence until Rambo arrived, it's safe to say that thpse aren't bulletproof windows whereas it's a standard practice for highly secured prisons to have bulletproof windows.
"One thing that i am sure tho, is the fact that Rambo was able to crack a helicopter windshield by throwing a small rock at a large distance, if you don’t know, cracking a car windshield is already difficult, but a helicopter one is much more harder, the helicopter that was following Rambo here was a Bell 206, which has a Polycarbonate windshield, which are impact resistant, in fact bullet proof glasses are made with polycarbonates, usually Lexan polymer, which has a tensile strength 66MPa, Bones (which Rambo easily break with his punches or with his fingers) in comparison have a tensile strength of 150MPa. Rambo was also strong enough to pull out an iron gate out of its place. Iron has a tensile strength of 540 MPa."
- While it's impressive for sure but you are forgetting that the surrounding stones that puts the iron bar in place had cracks all over and all Rambo did was move it well enough that it breaks free.
"None of those crashes seem deadlier than than Chopper and Tank collision that produced a much higher impact and a explosion also while his car crashes were violent, much of the impact were absolved by the airbag, the first helicopter fall was cushioned by sliding in the snow and the second was more impressive but nothing as extreme as other Rambo dura feats."
- You're forgetting Rambo had protection from these crashes whereas Ethan had none. The airbag and snow cushioning the fall is still pointless when inside the vehicle still produces force that would outright kill human beings.
"First he didn’t ram himself through a train car, he rammed himself to a train window This doesn't even trump Lewis surviving a mine blast that can explode a human to pieces or Kourov tanking a portion of an explosion that can decimate a man. Even if Ethan was hit upfront by 10 car train at average speed (which is clearly not the case here) it would only put him at the 11 megajoules range, Rambo tanking the tallboy shockwave puts him at 10 megajoules. Hardly any difference but again Ethan’s feat doesn’t even come close to that since he only rammed himself to a train window sideways."
- Once again, Rambo didn't tank the shockwave in ways that you think. Anyways, the train window doesn't seem impressive at first glance until you find out train windows are reinforced/shockproof with some even bullet proof. And I've already debunked that mine feat and tallboy shockwave feat.
"Well for first 2 comic panels Ethan is indeed dodging bullets but from a 9mm handgun, which typically has a muzzle velocity 1000+ feet per second, Rambo dodged a M16 and other assault rifles, the M16 for example has a muzzle velocity of 3150 ft/s. The third comic panel looked like the guy was just missing. The part that Ethan was running in the prison corridor also looked like the men were missing him, but here’s Rambo briefly outrunning helicopter gunfire."
- Rambo hasn't dodged those guns you have listed IN CLOSE RANGE whereas Ethan but it was an M4 in MI Fallout. Rambo briefly outrunning helicopter gunfire is comparable to Ethan's outrunning gunfire in a prison corridor. But still Rambo hasn't dodged bullets with his back turned like Ethan, and hasn't dodged missiles with his back turned like Ethan.
"Can you show me the sources? I mean I'm not doubting but I never came across those informations. It would be nice to have them. Now for the missile dodge thing, In the comic A New Kind Of War which is part of First Kill comic series, (which is canon since Sly himself co-wrote it, and represents his vision of Rambo’s past) we see that us soldier from Trautman’s Platoon was able to react and eject from his aircraft before multiple missiles could hit him. and as you know, Rambo scales above that."
- MI Operation Surma and MI 1 Prequel Comic. Regarding their canonicity, they are made with supervision from the filmmakers. MI 1, in the making documentary and director's commentary, in there he states the prequel comic is canon because he had personal input in it. MI 3, in the making and the director's commentary, there was a part where JJ Abrams were talking with Ving Rhames where he admits liking the game and considers it canon. Lastly there are one of the few side materials of Mission Impossible that doesn't contradict the timeline and lore. By the way, Rambo still can't dodge missiles in close range and only reacted by pulling the ejector when he saw the missile rather than dodging it in front of him. Heck it's even inferior to Ethan's feat of outrunning the missile in MI 3.
"Rambo was also able to move out of the way from Podovsky’s helicopter guided missiles. Also while Walker is a good shot he was having trouble to aim due the helicopter's constant movement."
- Fair enough.
"I respectfully disagree."
- Why? To put it simply, it's talent vs raw experience and we have seen numerous times those things are a tie.
"Let’s see Ethan was an Army Ranger, Rambo in comparison was a Green Beret MACV-SOG and Delta Force Operator. Ethan was in the Gulf Wars, Rambo has participated in the Vietnam war, Soviet-Afghan war, and Burma’s civil war. Each one of those wars had a death toll of at least 1 million, while the Gulf Wars only had 100k. Rambo being MACV-SOG also did numerous highly classified missions aka “black operations” since The force was above top secret, its existence was denied by the US government for over 20 years, even families of MACV-SOG members were not informed if their loved ones were killed in action and the definition of black ops is “a secret mission or campaign carried out by a military, governmental, or other organization, typically one in which the organization conceals or denies its involvement” and not only that Rambo recon mission FB part 2 was also black ops, Rambo’s mission in 3 was straight up unofficial."
- Ethan was an Army Ranger and CIA SAD Operative. From what I have heard, you need to be even tougher and skilled than Delta Forces just to be in CIA's SAD considering most people there are former Delta Forces that were the best of the best. While Rambo officially participated more wars than Ethan, however he wasn't in the service as long as Ethan. Rambo had 9 years of service and that's just it. He did two personal solo missions after that(Rambo 4 and Last Blood). Meanwhile Ethan had 5 years in the army rangers, 2 years in the CIA SAD, and then almost the rest of his life in the IMF. That means Ethan is constantly fighting and battling bad guys whereas Rambo still had time to have a break between here and there.
"You said “Rambo may be the guy to fight wars but Ethan is the guy who ends them if they were to happen or prevents them from happening in the first place” and while this is true i don't it diminishes Rambo on any way, Yeah their jobs are different but both of their roles are essential, the thing is the IMF works much more like an intelligence agency, and while Rambo is an expert on Light Weapons, Guerrila Warfare, Psychological Warfare, Foreign Internal Defense, Special Reconnaissance, Direct Action, Counter-Terrorism, Counter-Proliferation, Rescue Operations, Capture or Elimination of Enemy Forces, Covert Action, Target Attacks Behind The Lines, and Intelligence Gathering. His primary job is simple… Kill, and it’s heavily implied in the franchise, that he is literally born for it."
- This is what makes Ethan different from Rambo and arguably better. The IMF doesn't really work like an intelligence agency, it works more like a suicide squad actually considering all its agents are expendable and always taking on impossible missions which are varied and unpredictable. Most missions Rambo took are get in and out while shoot all the bad guys whereas it's more complicated than that when it's a mission from the IMF. In fact, the most simplest and easiest missions from the IMF are actually assassinations missions according to the MI TV Series and Prequel Novel. It's also mentioned in Ghost Protocol and MI 1 Novel that Ethan goes alone when he's on an assassination mission or a mission that just requires combat skills. Meaning Ethan can be a killer as much as Rambo although not as cold and ruthless.
This will be my last response, Not because this debate it's not being fun, it is, but I'm a little busy lately, and this is time consuming
- I said faster than some pistols. Some pistols. Because Spas 12 has a fire rate of 300 rounds per minute. There are some pistols lower than that along with some revolvers. Still that fire rate is fast enough to do the things Rambo did with that shotgun.
It is fast no doubt about it, but i don’t think that it still fast enough for someone to be able to kill 3 guys with AKs and 2 with semi automatic pistols before they can shoot you.
- Hence why the drone feat is superior.
Yeah, marginally tho.
- Maybe because Ethan was fighting elite international bounty hunters? As established in the MI Universe, Ethan isn't the only one who can dodge bullets and react to trigger fingers.
Well Rambo was fighting Spetsnaz, one of the best Special Forces in the world, and we know that SF guys are the most highly trained individuals when it comes to gunfights.
- I dunno, man. When humans get injured, they get vulnerable and weaker. Same thing applies to Rambo and Ethan. I don't know why it wouldn't apply to Kourov.
Kourov didn’t show any sign of being weaker, as i said before, Rambo showed more signs of pain due to his injured stomach than Kourov.
- I should have worded out things differently. My point is that, Ethan can potentially do the things you have mentioned due to the strength feats he had displayed. Because all the things Rambo is displaying are within the same force range Ethan did. We have seen Ethan hit harder thansledgehammers(MI Ghost Protocol Prison fight), lift three people at the same time(MI 3 Helicopter Scene and MI Dead Reckoning Train scene), easily crack people's neck(Paris Feat), and break bone(Kurt Hendrick's fight). However since Ethan isn't a bloodthirsty brutal killer like Rambo, that and he's PG 13 rather than Rated R, we wouldn't be seeing him fight and kill people the way Rambo does it.
Oh ok, that makes sense. I personally think they are around the same ballpark in Strength and Durability, but Rambo is slightly superior due to having feats of being able to tank or being able to damage people that can tank explosions.
- The thing is, Ethan is much stronger than Paris.
Rambo was also breaking those guys' necks very, very casually.
- I can no longer find the video on Reddit. But I do have anecdotes that says the exact same thing. Although they've added that a two good strikes from Sledgehammers would eventually break the armor and hurt its user. Still it's pretty impressive Ethan can hurt people with riot gear armor using his bare hands only considering what these things are suppose to tank on a daily basis.
Yeah it still super impressive
- I see. But Ethan also tanked a similar round in close range, the Bone Doctor shot Ethan at close range with an AK. He was hit in the back and barely reacted to it. You can see a subtle flinch when he was running.
Heck he was casually making phone calls while bleeding out in the Phone Booth.
Yeah this is also very impressive, and it’s also a feat of endurance for him.
- Just like Ethan Hunt survived something like this. Actually even with the air bag, the force generated here would have instantly killed Ethan if he was a normal real life human.
I’m not saying that his feat is totally survivable for a normal human being, i’m just saying that Rambo’s feat is more impressive.
- Bruh you can literally the trees around him weren't swept off at all. Meaning Rambo is at a surviveable distance. You're only looking at the trees that were close at the blast, not where Rambo is at.
Did you watch the feat breakdown that I linked? There’s multiple trees were destroyed behind Rambo and literally milliseconds later the shockwave hits Rambo, right after destroying those trees, a shockwave don’t lose that much power in milliseconds, Sly himself stated that the tallboy bomb’s blast in the movie would be 25 feet tall and would create a hole the size of a football field (360 feet long by 160 feet wide) there’s now way Rambo could be at survivable distance.
Also the images that you posted it, only shows the aftermath of the blast, and we can only see some burned foliage and parts of dead trees, the whole trees however are nowhere to be seen, and this forest was completely covered of those trees
In fact the trees that were in front of Rambo before that blast hit him also vanished
so it’s safe to assume that those burned foliage and dead tree parts were the only thing that was left in a 60,000 square foot radius after the blast.
I hope that i could make myself clearer this time
- Nah this is not ambigious at all. Because you can see Trautman analyzing the tunnel and how it's structured which led him to believe Rambo was alive.
You are drawing conclusions by yourself this time, we only see Trautman looking around but it’s never stated what he was thinking, you’re only guessing here.
You can even see Rambo was looking at something in the tunnels, meaning he had found a way out. And the fact that he survived the explosion without a scratch and seems to have ended up on a different side of the tunnels shows he did found a way. This isn't ambigious at all, the information are all there.
Again a image of character looking around, doesn’t prove your argument since we the audience are never presented with his insight, what you’re doing here is called headcanon, i could see the same photo and say that by his facial expressions he is thinking something along the lines of “f*ck i'm cornered, what do i do now?” In short you can draw conclusions of a character face and say that he’s thinking this or that, unless you literally got proof of that.
- I never really paid attention to the sequels because they're just so bad and just changed Rambo into a macho action hero instead of a believable and grounded tragic figure that embodies disillusioned vietnam war vets.
I like the sequels, I think they respected his character. He still is a tragic figure, and he was not believable since the first movie, he was dodging bullets, and being stated to be able to fend off hundreds of soldiers. And he always embodied war vets expecially in 2nd one, but i guess everyone is entitled to their opinions
Anyways your logic seems sound until you start implying Rambo can tank a landmine without injuries
Why tho? It's pretty simple. Lewis was able to tank an explosion that was blowing humans to pieces with only an injured leg. Rambo >>>> Lewis.
. Also Rambo's super soldier statements seems tame when compared to Ethan Hunt who's described to be a specialist without equal, a living manifesation of destiny, and a living incarnation of chaos.
Ethan being described to be a specialist without equal is indeed factual in his universe, but him being a living manifestation of destiny and chaos is pure hyperbole.
Rambo has very good statements too, other than the super soldier one .
If you also want to compare hyperbole statements there’s the one where Rambo was being compared to God.
Also i don’t like to use these kind of cross scaling but just for the sake of it, Sly himself stated that Rambo is superior to Barney Ross, (the guy from the expendables) Stallone wrote each film of both franchises so his opinion carries a lot of weight, which means that Rambo is superior to a guy who has decades of experience in successfully executing suicide missions.
- You're forgetting that Ethan flung himself from a speeding motorcycle to Sean first before falling at that height. Experts states Ethan and Sean would have been mangled brutalized corpses at that point even without the fall.
Yeah i forgot that part, they would have been splatted, but so would Rambo with that fall.
- Since bulletproof windows in Police Stations are uncommon and this literally took place in a peaceful town where there's no violence until Rambo arrived, it's safe to say that thpse aren't bulletproof windows whereas it's a standard practice for highly secured prisons to have bulletproof windows.
True, you’re right on this one, but him being able to crack a helicopter impact resistant polycarbonate windshield by throwing a small rock at such large distance still stands tho.
- While it's impressive for sure but you are forgetting that the surrounding stones that puts the iron bar in place had cracks all over and all Rambo did was move it well enough that it breaks free.
I don’t believe that the stones had cracks all over the place, sure the iron gate was already damaged on its lower left side, the rest was pretty much intact. Also he still would have to put alot of force to pull that thing out its hinges.
- You're forgetting Rambo had protection from these crashes whereas Ethan had none. The airbag and snow cushioning the fall is still pointless when inside the vehicle still produces force that would outright kill human beings.
Being inside a car and the airbag are protections though. Would save him from death in real life? No, but Rambo’s case would also be certain death regardless of the protection.
- Once again, Rambo didn't tank the shockwave in ways that you think. Anyways, the train window doesn't seem impressive at first glance until you find out train windows are reinforced/shockproof with some even bullet proof. And I've already debunked that mine feat and tallboy shockwave feat.
No you didn’t debunk neither especially the mine one, also the train windows are usually made with polycarbonate which we know that Rambo can crack by throwing a small rock at such large distance (which would make the stone lose a lot of momentum and it’s force)
- MI Operation Surma and MI 1 Prequel Comic. Regarding their canonicity, they are made with supervision from the filmmakers. MI 1, in the making documentary and director's commentary, in there he states the prequel comic is canon because he had personal input in it. MI 3, in the making and the director's commentary, there was a part where JJ Abrams were talking with Ving Rhames where he admits liking the game and considers it canon. Lastly there are one of the few side materials of Mission Impossible that doesn't contradict the timeline and lore. By the way, Rambo still can't dodge missiles in close range and only reacted by pulling the ejector when he saw the missile rather than dodging it in front of him. Heck it's even inferior to Ethan's feat of outrunning the missile in MI 3.
Oh I see. About the speed feats, i agree that Ethan has better speed feats but i just wanted to show that Rambo is not that far behind, to be considered a speedblitz.
- Ethan was an Army Ranger and CIA SAD Operative. From what I have heard, you need to be even tougher and skilled than Delta Forces just to be in CIA's SAD considering most people there are former Delta Forces that were the best of the best. While Rambo officially participated more wars than Ethan, however he wasn't in the service as long as Ethan. Rambo had 9 years of service and that's just it. He did two personal solo missions after that(Rambo 4 and Last Blood). Meanwhile Ethan had 5 years in the army rangers, 2 years in the CIA SAD, and then almost the rest of his life in the IMF. That means Ethan is constantly fighting and battling bad guys whereas Rambo still had time to have a break between here and there.
CIA SAD operatives are often compared to elite Tier 1 special forces soldiers such as Delta Force or Navy SEAL Team 6 (DEVGRU). And since many of its current members are former Delta and DEVGRU operators i'll say they're comparable
The thing is that Rambo is superior to all special forces in the world.
In Rambo 4 for example, despite being in his 60's, he's shown to be better than his mercenary partners, Acting in situations they would not risk to, Taking control of the situation, Leading and guiding them, Surprising them, Better thinking, Saving most them, and Outperforming them in the final battle.
The thing is, those Mercenaries were all Special Forces.
Also Rambo was in the army for 14 years, not 9, he enlisted in 1964, and left in 1978. And what i said was that Rambo just has more war experience than Ethan, but not overall combat experience, Rambo can handle people with more experience just fine tho.
- This is what makes Ethan different from Rambo and arguably better. The IMF doesn't really work like an intelligence agency, it works more like a suicide squad actually considering all its agents are expendable and always taking on impossible missions which are varied and unpredictable.
Suicide missions are not unfamiliar territory for Rambo, he was a MACV-SOG who did countless incursions behind enemy lines, MACV-SOG had a casualty rate that exceeded 100 percent. Rambo was also expandable.
Most missions Rambo took are get in and out while shoot all the bad guys whereas it's more complicated than that when it's a mission from the IMF. In fact, the most simplest and easiest missions from the IMF are actually assassinations missions according to the MI TV Series and Prequel Novel. It's also mentioned in Ghost Protocol and MI 1 Novel that Ethan goes alone when he's on an assassination mission or a mission that just requires combat skills. Meaning Ethan can be a killer as much as Rambo although not as cold and ruthless.
Rambo’s missions in vietnam were mostly to kill enemies, but during the sequels, we see that he did mostly rescue and extraction missions, in which he was mostly successful. While Ethan’s missions are more “intricate” he does have access to much better gear than Rambo. In Rambo 2 Trautman mentions that, for his solo mission, Rambo's being given more equipment than ever before. This equipment ends up being a Submachine gun, his bow and explosive arrows (The explosive arrows are admittedly the most high tech weapon he has ever used), some knives, and a camera. So, we can infer from this that he used even less than that during his battles in Vietnam. A good example of their radically different approaches is their camouflage, this is how Ethan camouflages himself, this is how Rambo does it.
It is fast no doubt about it, but i don’t think that it still fast enough for someone to be able to kill 3 guys with AKs and 2 with semi automatic pistols before they can shoot you.
- There are some anecdotes stating it is possible since it's 350RPM and the guys with those guns Rambo killed just had slow reactions and trigger fingers.
Well Rambo was fighting Spetsnaz, one of the best Special Forces in the world, and we know that SF guys are the most highly trained individuals when it comes to gunfights.
- Still, humans in Rambo verse are different from MI verse. There tends to be more people like Ethan whereas there's less people like Rambo. When I say people, I mean superhuman. I mean petite women in the MI verse can overpower two larger men, hold 3 people with one hand, and casually break human necks.
Kourov didn’t show any sign of being weaker, as i said before, Rambo showed more signs of pain due to his injured stomach than Kourov.
- He does show signs of being weaker. He was slower than before, sluggish and awkward. Hence weaker.
Oh ok, that makes sense. I personally think they are around the same ballpark in Strength and Durability, but Rambo is slightly superior due to having feats of being able to tank or being able to damage people that can tank explosions.
- Ethan has tanked explosions before, MI Ghost Protocol's Kremlin Explosion, the landmines literally blew on his feet yet all he got were bruises but nothing serious since he was up and running after that although Ethan was knocked out but then again both characters of each sides get knocked out by explosions.
Rambo was also breaking those guys' necks very, very casually.
- Yeah with a vine or a rope, not with his bare hands alone like Paris.
I’m not saying that his feat is totally survivable for a normal human being, i’m just saying that Rambo’s feat is more impressive.
- How so? Even if someone is peak human, they still ain't surviving that crash Ethan tanked because the force and whiplash would be too much and would just crush you instantly.
Did you watch the feat breakdown that I linked? There’s multiple trees were destroyed behind Rambo and literally milliseconds later the shockwave hits Rambo, right after destroying those trees, a shockwave don’t lose that much power in milliseconds, Sly himself stated that the tallboy bomb’s blast in the movie would be 25 feet tall and would create a hole the size of a football field (360 feet long by 160 feet wide) there’s now way Rambo could be at survivable distance.
Also the images that you posted it, only shows the aftermath of the blast, and we can only see some burned foliage and parts of dead trees, the whole trees however are nowhere to be seen, and this forest was completely covered of those trees
- The pics I've showed were revealing a clear shot and location where Rambo ended up, it shows the tree nearby him weren't swept away heck even the bushes weren't, meaning Rambo was at a survivable distance. The pics I was showing wasn't really the aftermatch but the location where Rambo ducked down and held himself on the ground.
You are drawing conclusions by yourself this time, we only see Trautman looking around but it’s never stated what he was thinking, you’re only guessing here.
- He was looking around then smirked which is literally telling the audience that he knew Rambo found a way and survived.
Again a image of character looking around, doesn’t prove your argument since we the audience are never presented with his insight, what you’re doing here is called headcanon, i could see the same photo and say that by his facial expressions he is thinking something along the lines of “f*ck i'm cornered, what do i do now?” In short you can draw conclusions of a character face and say that he’s thinking this or that, unless you literally got proof of that.
- Not really because the shot supports the aftermath of that explosion and my argument which is that Rambo found a way and ended up in a different side of the tunnel hence why he survived.
I like the sequels, I think they respected his character. He still is a tragic figure, and he was not believable since the first movie, he was dodging bullets, and being stated to be able to fend off hundreds of soldiers. And he always embodied war vets expecially in 2nd one, but i guess everyone is entitled to their opinions
- Believable is different from realistic and the statement of being able to fend off hundreds of soldiers is not that far off because Trautman emphasized Rambo's use of guerilla warfare. Arthur W. Wermuth who's a real life WW2 Soldier is proof of this. Anyways him embodying war vets in Part 2 was sloppy and more preachy along with misaligned compared to the first one.
Why tho? It's pretty simple. Lewis was able to tank an explosion that was blowing humans to pieces with only an injured leg. Rambo >>>> Lewis.
- Hmm okay, fair point. Meanwhile Ethan tanked landmine explosions and only got knocked out with a few bruises here and there.
If you also want to compare hyperbole statements there’s the one where Rambo was being compared to God.
- The comparison is less impressive when it's a comparison of who's forgiving. Meanwhile hyperbolic statements around Ethan makes him less of a human and more of a concept.
Also i don’t like to use these kind of cross scaling but just for the sake of it, Sly himself stated that Rambo is superior to Barney Ross, (the guy from the expendables) Stallone wrote each film of both franchises so his opinion carries a lot of weight, which means that Rambo is superior to a guy who has decades of experience in successfully executing suicide missions.
- Hmm that is cool. You seem to know a lot about Rambo as much as I know about Ethan. Anyways, the comparison of Barney Ross between Ethan Hunt is kinda moot because while they both took suicide missions, Barney's missions are mostly just centered around combat and he also has a bigger team that are all combat specialists whereas Ethan's team are extremely small and most of them aren't even combat specialist. According to the MI Novels and MI Ghost Protocol, Ethan goes alone when it comes to impossible missions that just centers around combat and assassinations.
Yeah i forgot that part, they would have been splatted, but so would Rambo with that fall.
- You also forget that Sean also flung himself to Ethan from his motorcycle which makes the crash feat more impressive. They've literally flung themselves from their motorcycles and then fall like 30 to 40 feet down to a beach yet they are only dizzy from the exchange rather than suffer anything serious before getting up and then delivering a smackdown against one another which makes it even more impressive since Ethan and Sean are relative to one another in terms of strength meaning they would be throwing forces that surpasses sledgehammers to one another after their crash and fall. Meanwhile Rambo is shown to yelp and scream in pain from his fall and was leaning against a tree for support. Not only that, he wasn't fighting someone within his level after that like Ethan did.
True, you’re right on this one, but him being able to crack a helicopter impact resistant polycarbonate windshield by throwing a small rock at such large distance still stands tho.
- Fair enough.
I don’t believe that the stones had cracks all over the place, sure the iron gate was already damaged on its lower left side, the rest was pretty much intact. Also he still would have to put alot of force to pull that thing out its hinges.
- Well that is true. But I still believe it had cracks all over since that thing was near an explosion.
Being inside a car and the airbag are protections though. Would save him from death in real life? No, but Rambo’s case would also be certain death regardless of the protection.
- But Rambo had a tank made for such collisions albeit not to that degree whereas Ethan's car wasn't.
No you didn’t debunk neither especially the mine one, also the train windows are usually made with polycarbonate which we know that Rambo can crack by throwing a small rock at such large distance (which would make the stone lose a lot of momentum and it’s force)
- While they are made from the same materials, train windows are still tougher and durable due to how they are made and designed. And Ethan went through it like it's nothing although he was shown to be dizzy after it.
Oh I see. About the speed feats, i agree that Ethan has better speed feats but i just wanted to show that Rambo is not that far behind, to be considered a speedblitz.
- Oh, okay. Cool. To be honest, I didn't expect Rambo to be this fast.
CIA SAD operatives are often compared to elite Tier 1 special forces soldiers such as Delta Force or Navy SEAL Team 6 (DEVGRU). And since many of its current members are former Delta and DEVGRU operators i'll say they're comparable
The thing is that Rambo is superior to all special forces in the world.
In Rambo 4 for example, despite being in his 60's, he's shown to be better than his mercenary partners, Acting in situations they would not risk to, Taking control of the situation, Leading and guiding them, Surprising them, Better thinking, Saving most them, and Outperforming them in the final battle.
The thing is, those Mercenaries were all Special Forces.
Lewis was a SAS soldier.
School Boy was a SBS soldier.
Diaz was a Green Beret.
En Joo was a Navy Seal.
Reese was a Delta Force and Army Ranger operative.
Also Rambo was in the army for 14 years, not 9, he enlisted in 1964, and left in 1978. And what i said was that Rambo just has more war experience than Ethan, but not overall combat experience, Rambo can handle people with more experience just fine tho.
- Both can be said to be superior than all special forces in the world since IMF is an organization that gives that no one can do except the very few. In MI Dead Reckoning Part 1, it is stated that the IMF surpasses even the United States Intelligence Community and Eugene Kittridge considers Ethan to be even superior than IMF itself. I apologize for the mistake on Rambo having 9 years in service, people say it was 9 years and the wiki also states the same.
Suicide missions are not unfamiliar territory for Rambo, he was a MACV-SOG who did countless incursions behind enemy lines, MACV-SOG had a casualty rate that exceeded 100 percent. Rambo was also expandable.
- But Ethan did it more than Rambo tho.
Rambo’s missions in vietnam were mostly to kill enemies, but during the sequels, we see that he did mostly rescue and extraction missions, in which he was mostly successful. While Ethan’s missions are more “intricate” he does have access to much better gear than Rambo. In Rambo 2 Trautman mentions that, for his solo mission, Rambo's being given more equipment than ever before. This equipment ends up being a Submachine gun, his bow and explosive arrows (The explosive arrows are admittedly the most high tech weapon he has ever used), some knives, and a camera. So, we can infer from this that he used even less than that during his battles in Vietnam. A good example of their radically different approaches is their camouflage, this is how Ethan camouflages himself, this is how Rambo does it.
- That's a fair point. Anyways this has been fun and I like that I got to know more about Rambo's scaling and feats. Peace.
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