High Tier Tournament R2: chimeroid vs firefly489 (CLOSED: firefly concedes)

It says it right "on the label". Thor can slug it out with the strongest of the strong. He fought everyone he could, including various beings that can planet-bust and tank planet-busting attacks. He has moved and withstood weights and pressures that go far beyond the mere weight of the planet Earth.

He withstood the "gravimetric attraction of a neutron star". A feat that, in and of itself is dangerously close to the limits of this tournament.

He held a city/castle firm against the attraction force of a black hole.

I mean, even in my "cover" feat, that's far from his most impressive, arm wrestling with Hercules generated enough pressure to move the Earth. That's with only 1 arm each. Doubles as a durability feat as their bodies withstand that pressure.

In one of his most famous showings, he literally punched someone THROUGH the planet.

All kinds of storms, winds, rains, and lightning are just parts of Thor's existence on this plane. He and Jane were capable of summoning storms of various sizes and effects in so many situations that listing the feats would be insane. So instead, i will just post two feats and move on for now.

And for Jane's feat to showcase their abilities, i will show this one:

Channeled Jupiter's Superstorm against Odin, with decent effect. They can control the storms as minutely and precisely as they want, and they can create attacks that far exceed planetary levels. And these are both faaar from the best weather manipulation feats they have.

• Energy Projection: With Mjolnir, its wielder can project powerful mystical beams of energy. He can even channel energies for stronger energy attacks.
• God-Blast: Thor is capable of channeling different amounts of his godly energies in combination with the mystical properties of Mjolnir can be channeled through his hammer for a single massive energy beam known as the God-Blast. The God Blast in and of itself easily challenges the limits of this tournament. But, the Hammer can do so much more.
• Anti-Force: Another form of energy manipulation that calls forth a blast of energy similar to the God Blast, but with a bit less strength, and no side effects. The blast is stated to be capable of destroying planets.
• Thermo-Blast: A seldomly used ability of Mjolnir that was stated to be capable of destroying planets and killing celestials.
• Energy Sensing: Mjolnir can detect practically all types of energy
• Energy Absorption and Redirection: One of the most common applications of the Uru Hammer is Thor's ability to use it to absorb any and all types of energy used against him. He has absorbed and redirected hundreds of attacks in his time. Including magic, cosmic energy, physical powers, radioactivity, and even magnetism. He even once fully drained Doom-Driven Destroyer armor in a matter of moments. There is little to no limit in regards to how much energy Mjolnir can absorb, redirect, or even straight up remove from the equation. This ability will be of very high importance.
• Portal Creation - Thor can effortlessly open portals to anywhere he wants to including cross-dimensional portals. He doesn't even need to know where he is going. It is driven by his desire.
• Nether World Power/ Hellfire: Thor can enhance his hammer with the fires of the Nether World (Hel) Or he can just shoot flames or use them in creative ways
• Memory Manipulation: I wasn't sure if this was Mjolnir's ability, or Thor's, but he has on occasion used the hammer to alter or delete memories of people around him.
• Cosmic Energy: Mjolnir allows Thor to produce and control Cosmic Energy to an unknown limit for a variety of purposes.
• Invisibility and Intangibility: Thor can turn himself or others, using Mjolnir, completely intangible and/or invisible. An offshoot of this ability is that Thor can use Mjolnir to completely disrupt phasing abilities.
• Life Force Absorption:
• Illusion Detection: Mjolnir can distinguish images, holograms, and different illusions from reality:
• Force Fields: With Mjolnir, Thor was capable of creating powerful barriers, force fields, and vortexes that were impenetrable. Not even Earth's most advanced weapons could weaken Thor's barrier field that shielded the U.N. Headquarters.[101] Thor stated that he could have contained a cosmic flash attack from Stellaris,
• Negation of Mystic Energy: On many occasion, Thor has been shown able to dispel magical effects of spells or even sap beings empowered by magic of their abilities. Thor has also called upon the powers of his Mother, through the Hammer, to strip sorcerers of their powers.

Same as Odinson, but with fewer showings. However, she has some feats that overshadow even the best of Thor's showings. How? Well, she is much more creative with her powers. The way she makes Mjolnir move astounds even Thor himself.

With Jane in the fray, both Mjolnirs become additional FTL combatants for my team. Combatants that move independently in unpredictable and yet fully precise patterns, faster than light, and powerful enough to dent adamantium.

Jane is in every aspect comparable to Odinson and even has a fight against Odin himself where she holds her own masterfully. Clearly, Odin was more powerful and was going to beat her. But what she did is nothing short of miraculous.

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Now, I am not trying to scale Jane to Odin, that would be ludicrous. No, I am simply scaling her to Odinson. Something that is fair and accurate in every regard. Everything he can do, she can do as well, with the addition of her creative use of Mjolnir's independence.

Loki's powers can easily be described in a single word - magic.

Sure, he has super stats, he is fast, strong, durable, immortal, and has all the bells and whistles that come with being a god. But it was always his mind and his magic that made him stand out. He is brilliant, lethal, and one of the most versatile magic users Marvel has ever had. So, when you ask what Loki can do, the answer is - Literally everything.

The list includes:

• Size manipulation
• Shapeshifting
• Invisibility
• Intangibility
• Elemental manipulation
• Summoning
• Illusions
• Replication
• Telepathy
• Hypnosis
• Teleportation
• Telekinesis
• Strength sapping/transfer
• Soul transfer
• Astral projection
• Binding/cursing/enchanting/spell breaking
• Clairvoyance
• Transmutation
• Animation
• Healing
• Resurrection
• Temporal manipulation

Simply put - he has magic. If you want, I can drop a million scans here, although, it's not necessary. It makes more sense for both of us to stick to feats that will be more relevant to the debate.

One of the most common magical items (well, a set of items) that Loki reaches for when he or his friends need a bit of an "oomph". He can teleport the stones to himself at will and is the last known user of the set. In the prep time, he will just bring them to himself in any number of ways (for example, by taking them out of the bag) and start amping the team.

For starters, he can just use the Norn Stones to blanketly amp everyone as he did right before his early demise in Reign.

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Void was shown as clearly superior to even the mightiest of these heroes to the degree of them appearing almost helpless in front of him. And Loki was capable of even amping Captain America to the tier of being capable of actually harming the Void with his shield tosses.

This also healed them to full health when it was needed. This is in line with dozens of other showings of the Norn stones instantly healing people and even resurrecting fallen comrades.

What else can the Norn Stones do? Basically anything. The fact that I will be using them to amp my team doesn't mean that it's the only valid use for them. In essence, they unlock Loki's abilities and feats to a much higher degree than previously possible.

I will keep with the topic of trying to avoid to post an entire respect thread for each and every section. And., I mean, we all know what the Battle Computer does, right? It runs millions of simulations each second to give Midnighter all of the information he needs to win a fight.

From the moment you step to him, he has full knowledge. And not just that, but full predictions of everything you will do. If you want, we can go in-depth with the respect thread for Midnighter and all the crazy stuff he has done with the BC. But, it's enough to just point out one thing:

Midnighter consistently beats beings that are far above him in terms of powers when he uses the battle computer. And, Thor is already too close to the limits of this tournament for your team to be allowed to be significantly more powerful.

Thor is also a versatility king. The amount of Hax abilities he has with Mjolnir is not surpassed by many a character. A battle computer and that type of versatility is a very deadly combination of abilities.

For my one piece of Non-Standard gear, I wanted to use the Eternity Mask, as Loki was the one to use it. But Professor really did make a fair ruling when he told me that the way Loki used the mask is way too OP for this tournament, which yes, makes my team much less broken than I wanted it to be, but it opens up to a bit more of Asgardian lore instead. Which, of course, makes me happy as we are here to dig deep into the gods of the Norse.

Odin, as you know, is old. Very old. And he is proud. After he found out that Celestials would one day come back to his realm to judge whether or not it should be left alone to thrive he was rightfully angry. Angry enough that he started developing new weapons that would allow him to thwart the Celestial threat that was looming above his head.

He weaved his magic and transformed his Ring of the Nibelung into a weapon. A suit of armor that was deemed almost completely indestructible. Stronger than Uru, stronger maybe than even Adamantium.

With this weapon created, he went to the other of the "earthly" Gods, and asked their skyfathers to also contribute to the power of the Destroyer armor, and so they did.

Even with all of that, the Destroyer armor is one of Odin's greatest failures. It came woefully short compared to the might of even one celestial, and there were 8 that came to judge Earth that day. Luckily for Odin, they gave it a passing mark and moved along.

But, even as the failure it is, the Armor remains one of the most powerful weapons any Asgardian can wield.

Both Loki and Thor have used the Destroyer armor more than once. Now, i will not pretend i can fully predict what the Battle Computer will tell Thor to do. Whether to fuel the Destroyer armor with his soul, or simply to don it as a suit of Armor Odin used once. But, he will do what is deemed the most optimal choice. I assume it would be to simply wear it as a piece of armor, as his father recently did.

If you disagree, you can correct me, but that wouldn't change much in regards to everything that could happen. It would be trivial for either Thor to call forth an Asgardian willing to pilot the Destroyer armor for them. Or to do so themselves. How powerful is the armor? Very powerful indeed. Let's mention a few of the feats.

Effortlessly walked through Thor's Anti-Force Blast

canonically harder than adamantium

Even Jarnbjorn isn't capable of putting a scratch into it, and that axe was made to cut celestial armor (and it did)

The combined magic of Karnilla and Scarlett Witch did nothing to the armor.

The armor also packs a helluva punch. Not only can it destroy even Mjolnir itself, but it has transmutational and disintegration beams. Not that i think those will be the most important, but i don't think that part will matter much to this particular debate.

The biggest difference between how Thor usually fights and this debate will lie in his Battle Computer. A supercomputer capable of calculating millions of scenarios per second can come up with some amazing plans if given hours. This computer has been used for tactical concerns before and has given excellent results.

In the showing above, Midnighter orchestrated a global operation battling millions of mind-controlled people and he managed to exactly calculate not only what will happen, but what will happen if he lets someone else take over when he goes to do his work in person.

Now, I don't plan on hiding behind "battle computer - GG". Instead, the entire point is that, if you or I can think of a good way for my team to fight, we can guarantee that the Computer can think at least of that much, probably much better.

This way, I am removing the topic of whether or not we would think of a strategy during the preparation period of 1 hour. To put it simply - I have access to the best possible strategy.

Now, there is not much that I can do with only 1 hour. And, thankfully, we don't need a lot.

We will use Loki's powers to amp the Thors and himself in a myriad of ways. All according to what the Battle Computer suggests.

He can amp himself and his team, he can make us all invisible and intangible, and he can depower your team as soon as the battle starts. Loki has, on occasion, amped both himself and others up, to a thousandfold. With the norn stones, it can go way higher than that. Namely, all the way to the tournament limits across all the stats.

Another thing to do during prep is to gear up with some of the common items these characters tend to reach for. With Thor's and Loki's magic and dimensional portals, getting any of their items is a piece of cake. And i'm not even reaching for the powerful stuff.

Thor will get his axe - Jarnbjorn, either that one or any of his other weapons. Mostly just to still have a weapon while Mjolnir is busy doing other things (like being controlled by Jane and fighting creatively, or flying around the battlefield draining all of your energy). Thor can also summon his belt of strength, although, with the Norn Amp, he is already at the limits, so i would avoid using the belt as well for fear of eliminating myself through disqualification. But, if you argue that Thor would still lack strength, i can reach for it.

Loki, will of course, wield his weapons, not that they matter as they all just improve his spellcasting abilities. At the very least, he will be wielding his sword Laevateinn, which is canonically equal in power to Mjolnir.

That's not all the Asgardians can do during prep

With Thors, I have two of the most powerful weather manipulators that are allowable in this tournament, which is to say - the battlefield will not last. As you forgot to take the prep perk, you won't have the benefit of enjoying your surroundings, even for a second as two Thors will create a storm that will definitely pose an issue to your flawless execution of whatever battle plan you would want to present. Planetary - Star-level storms are very easily within the range of such amped Gods of Thunder.

Why would this matter? Well, clearly, Hulk wouldn't be affected by near-planetary winds, and Despotelis wouldn't care about the earthquakes or any accidental lightning strikes that come from being in a massive storm. But, Grim Reaper and Winter would absolutely be negatively affected. As would even Metamorpho. But, the most important aspect of your team that would be affected by this would be - your "plan".

And, yes, it is fully in character for Thor to cover an entire planet in a storm.

You already have no prep time, and with the pandemonium being unleashed upon you, your team basically has to rely on "random encounter" rules for this fight.

Since the name of the game here is pure obliteration and a complete lack of time for your team to focus and execute any plan, I will also be leveraging the ability of the royal brothers to wage war.

I will start with Frosti - Or an approximation of it, (depending on if you insist on me bringing the original snowman or creating a new one.) Either takes about a second of Loki's time. Frosti is a snowman powered by the Norn Stones. He can see the future and is capable of devouring Nightmare and sending him back to his dream dimension.

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The Nightmare instance I, give or take, don't care about almost at all. It's a nifty ability, but nothing too important for our fight.

The future sight, however, that I can leverage greatly. It means that my team can have a much better chance at predicting exactly where your team will be and what they will do when my prep time is over. Once the team has used his future sight, he may as well be melted to serve as a refreshing beverage.

Most of the other summons aren't here to necessarily injure or beat your team, merely to inconvenience you even further and furthermore

With that in mind, Loki can literally turn clouds into dragons. He was confident Thor without a hammer wouldn't be able to handle them. He was, of course, wrong, but if you're just using a dozen or so dragons to waste the enemy's time, it will suffice.

You wisely took basic knowledge as a perk. I haven't, but, was it a mistake for me? I don't think so, for starters, the Battle computer can analyze the brainwaves of the enemies and give a lot of information to Thor, but, more importantly, Loki has the easiest way to almost full knowledge about anyone.

And, to top it all of, as I've said I plan on using Frosti (or a similar construct) for the future sight for even more information.

Having the knowledge needed for this fight, and then using the battle computer during combat to optimize actions and reactions will greatly assist me with fighting a team as interesting as the one you presented right here.

At a surface level, it does seem like your team doesn't really work together as cohesive ideation, but I can see what you want to go for. The air itself will become poisonous and filled with super-viruses.

Thankfully, neither of those things will necessarily impact my team. Despacito has had issues infecting gods before. I mean, he was outright shown incapable of doing so.

And, yes, Asgardians are also immune to diseases:

Your team will know, give or take, exactly what the initial strategy of my team will be thanks to their "basic knowledge". But the lack of prep time really hinders you here. You are instantly buffeted by planetary-level winds and much more than that in lightning.

Overall, the basic strategy that your team suggests falls rather quickly when matched up against Gods. But, that leaves you at a place far from helpless. You still have the powers you need to put up an excellent fight. The Immortal Hulk himself is always a fun matchup for Thor. Even though Thor is definitely Hulk superior even in the usual times.

Now, you are probably also planning to leverage the Grim Reaper and his sight to the highest degree possible. Unfortunately for you, the scythe is just inferior to Mjolnir in every single way.

(Copypasting most of my previous post as well, just with some minor fixes)

Despotellis

He's the smallest, but also the heaviest hitter on my team. As the bio states, he can clone himself. As for his other capabilities, he can infect entire planets:

And wipe them out:

Create neural spores, which then in turn create hallucinations:

And even mind control:

He can infect the sentient planet Mogo:

Grim Reaper

Next on the list is another one of my designated assassins-Eric Williams, the Grim Reaper. Keep in mind that aside from his standard abilities, he also has passive invisibility, and teleportation.

For starters, his scythe is capable of cutting through strong metals such as Uru:

And Adamantium:

It allows him to absorb energy:

And as mentioned in the bio, the coma ray:

Metamorpho

He has the ability to shapeshift and turn into elements.

Turns into chlorine gas:

Tear gas:

Endorphine gas that immobilizes the target and induces hallucinations:

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And as a cherry on top, it allows him to phase through attacks:

Devil Hulk

He's strong enough to send She-Hulk flying for miles with a punch:

Shrug off Hercules and Thor (Jane):

Arguably weaker version of Hulk can throw Fin Fang Foom to the moon:

For durability, he can take hits from Thor (Jane) and Hercules:

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And has regen:

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Winter

As his bio states, Winter can absorb and convert energy. Althought it's not pleasant for him ,he can absorb magic as well.

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(Read from right to left)

As for his limits, he managed to absorb the Sun, although it eradicated his body.

Now I'm not trying to say this puts Winter on the top of this Tourney (Star level), rather that you need Star level power to actually take him out.

A few things to keep in mind: all members of my team know how your characters operate and have perfect teamwork. Hulk and Winter are LS. Reaper is invisible and can teleport.

At the start of the battle, Despotellis will infect the planet and spread his spores and Metamorpho will clone himself:

My first target is Loki, who will get an instant decapitation from the teleporting invisible reaper. He will be joined by Winter, who will rush in and absorb in his magic, thus negating any possible effect it would have. This will only be made worse with Despo, who will infect Loki and weaken him. I can also add Metamorpho to the 'take out Loki squad', who can poison him with his gas forms, or give him brain damage:

After this quick jump, Reaper will summon the living corpses of the original Captain Marvel and Thunderstrike (The only useful members that I'm allowed to use):

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Thunderstrike is strong enough to contend with Thor:

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And Captain Marvel can send the Thing flying with a puch:

These two will help Hulk occupy the Thors. At the same time, Thors will be assaulted by Metamorpho's clones and Despotellis spores. Keep in mind that at this point, Loki is too busy dealing with energy drain, Despo, Rex and Reaper

Prep

For starters, the battle computer is completely useless as a prep device, as you don't even know who you're going to be fighting, due to your lack of knowledge. As your scan says, you need somethng to analyse for it work. How do you expect this to work, when I'm not even there yet?

Storms aren't really a problem for me. Your already said Hulk and Despo won't care. Both Winter (who can also lightning via LS) and Reaper can absorb energy. Reaper can simply teleport himself, or himself away. Rex can tank nukes:

And reform from damage:

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Frosti is meant to be a replacement for Loki, and was only created as a replacement for Loki on Jotunheim, and never as some summon he could use in battle outside Jotunheim. As mentioned, battle computer won't help you here, as you need an opponent to counter.

Other counters

Even in the actual battle, your battle computer fails short. Despo is a virus, meaning no brain, meaning you can't scan him. Battle computer struggles with gases, meaning Rex will be a problem form him.

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The dragons get knocked out bya Rex clone, as they don't have any resistance feats

Despo shouldn't have any problem with infections, as 1) Asgardians aren't new gods 2) Your scan only talks about earth based diseases 3) Even the asgardian Mjolnir magic couldn't beat cancer

Despo is powerful enough to infect planets, I don't see him having any problem with at worst weakening your team.

Everyone seems to be pressed about the Battle Computer. It's really not that deep. I mean, my prep is literally simpler than your prep. And you don't even have prep or prep masters.

I was fairly certain my team and prep were and are very down-to-earth and simple. However, seems like you have taken an issue with a bit part of it. So, let's see what we can do.

"For starters, the battle computer is completely useless as a prep device, as you don't even know who you're going to be fighting, due to your lack of knowledge. As your scan says, you need somethng to analyse for it work. How do you expect this to work, when I'm not even there yet?"

A) My scan of Midnighter organizing a worldwide event shows that he doesn't have to analyze something to work

B) Not a single piece of my prep is complex enough to fully rely on the battle computer.

C) Frosti (i know, you are disputing this as well) can give knowledge to my team.

Storms aren't really a problem for me. Your already said Hulk and Despo won't care. Both Winter (who can also lightning via LS) and Reaper can absorb energy. Reaper can simply teleport himself, or himself away. Rex can tank nukes:

They aren't a problem in terms of injuring Hulk or Despo, but your prep isn't nearly as simple as you pretend it is, and disrupting communication or organization is a huge benefit. Especially since these storms can also physically prevent your teammates from interacting with me. I will need to do a breakdown for each character for this section though, and I was already planning on offering some serious counters when I saw your opening, especially for Winter.

Overall, neither Winter nor Reaper can ignore storms, if Reaper Teleports away, he is much less useful, and Rex can survive explosions, but he cannot ignore powerful winds.

You seem to have taken offense to the idea of Loki using Frosti in combat. I don't really see the strength of that argument.

"Frosti is meant to be a replacement for Loki, and was only created as a replacement for Loki on Jotunheim, and never as some summon he could use in battle outside Jotunheim."

I don't see a reason why Loki wouldn't be able to do that though. Can you help me out here? Is your argument that using Frosti is out of character for Loki? I mean, Loki is one of the most consistent characters to leverage getting help from others, summoning beasts, monsters, gods, or mortals to get them to do his bidding. And this remains true throughout his history, whether it's pre or post-resurrection Loki.

Maybe we will learn a lot more about Frosti in the future, and if we do, Frosti will become unusable in the future. But as of right now, Frosti is a very new creation of Loki that was created with 0 effort by Loki to do his bidding.

Your fighting against this frankly surprises me, because Frosti as a strategy is way more in line with Loki's usual M.O. than what your strategy represents here. I mean, Despotelis, for example, doesn't infect planets. It worked on Mogo because Mogo is a living organism. Not just a hunk of rock in space. But, I'm rambling, Frosti is a casual creation of Loki that took him literally a few seconds to create.

You argued that Despotelis can "infect the planet we are fighting on". That is absolutely a big hecking "NO" from me, dog. He infected Mogo as Mogo is a living organism, and even then, it took Despotelis a loooong time to do it. It's not something he can do trivially. This leads us to a more important debate, can Despacito here even infect Asgardians? Well, you didn't put forward anything good enough to suggest it's possible.

Despo shouldn't have any problem with infections, as 1) Asgardians aren't new gods 2) Your scan only talks about earth based diseases 3) Even the asgardian Mjolnir magic couldn't beat cancer

1. Asgardians are gods, and they are immune to earthly diseases. Do you have any way to back your claim up in terms of significance of difference between Asgardians and New Gods? The mechanics seem to be the same, and Despo clearly has limits.

2. By "earthly" , it's meant 'mortal' not only "from planet Earth".

3. Jane Thor was fully immune to cancer. I think you really need to think twice before you post a scan. The scan you posted absolutely proves my points. Let's break Jane's claims down:

a) Transforming automatically removes all poisons from her body (including chemotherapy)

b) Cancer is a part of her body, so transformation doesn't remove it from her body. But, as thor she is 100% Immune to the cancer.

You are trying to make a point, but you are not doing it well. The entire story of Jane as Thor is that, when she is a God, she is immune to cancer, but her human form suffers as she can't go through chemotherapy as a god. But i have to say this again - As THOR, Jane is IMMUNE TO CANCER.

Oooh, so close, you said this:

My team spawns in, and in that instant, Loki's head falls off (Uru isn't stopping, since Reaper can cut throught it anyway)

But I simply HAVE to contest that statement. Be vary of respect thread feats, because you might be missing some context. When Eric cut Uru he was massively amped by Mephisto himself

Even the showing of Eric cutting Ultron has additional context. As Eric explains, Ultron was becoming more human, making him vulnerable to the magic of the scythe.

Is it stupidly written? yes. Is it proof that Ultron's body was weakened? Absolutely.

So, no, the Grim Reaper never cut through Uru through his own powers or weapons. And the Destroyer armor is much more durable than Uru is, anyway.

Here's the thing i don't get, though. Your team is tailor-made for prep. Why didn't you get any? Reaper can amp himself by draining victims, he can make contracts with devils (as he did several times, with Lloigoroth and Mephisto), Despotelis needs time to do his thing, and so does Rex. Without prep, Eric is fodder.

Yes, Virginia has a low degree of super-strength, but he was still killed with a cookie sheet. Like, 5 minutes of prep, and your team could work well.

And an hour of prep is only one perk point. you would be able to achieve so much more.

Nikolas died in the Sun, took him a long ass time to recover.

Winter can absorb energy and magic, but you are seriously underselling how big of an issue magic is to him. He would avoid trying to absorb lightning from Thor, as it already hits too close to his max feats. And, "Sun Winter" is a temporary amp that he had that isn't applicable to this combat as a feat.

Now, if you want us to reach for "temporary amped versions" of our characters for this debate, you should know I am more than willing to do so.

As far as the feat itself goes, Winter was literally burned by piloting into the Sun and only came back insanely long after that. Long enough to be called a win in a debate. After he spent quite some time in the Sun, absorbing it's energies, he became a planetary level threat. Before that, not even close.

He once tried and failed to absorb the energy of a neutrino bomb. Absorbing the radiation of the Neutrino bomb brought him close to his limits, and the bomb exploded, KTFO-ing him. And this left him completely useless until late in the evening of the same day.

And, this has always been considered a GOOD feat for him. I'm not lowballing, that's just where his limits were set for his high-end tiers. I'm not saying he's weak, but he has been KOed by much weaker attacks than "star level".

Even post "Sun" (Authority: Scorched Earth) Winter was shredded open by regular claws.

I do think he can survive in the storm the Thors would cook up for your team, i just don't think he would be very useful for the fight, outside of struggling to survive himself.

Look, Rex is cool, in fact, one of the coolest DC characters that is beloved by a lot of fans and writers alike. But, he is still bound by laws of physics in his transformations.

You went on and on about how he will be in his gaseous form, but being a gas actually makes him SUPER VULNERABLE TO WINDS. I mean, Thor has wind-related feats on a high-planetary scale, as i have already shown, and he even used such winds to prevent radiation damage:

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And, as far as Mason's ability to handle cyclones goes, well, a severely depowered Speedster was capable of doing this to him:

As long as the winds persisted, Metamorpho was completely powerless against the speedster. He managed to reconstitute himself and stomp the clone of Jay Garrick, but that was only with assistance that stopped the tornado. Thor's whirlwinds are hundreds of times more powerful than this one. Metamorpho isn't doing much in this battle at all. I mean Thor has quite literally used this specific strategy on dangerous gasses before.

You forgot to mention a few things that I had planned and presented in your counter post. For starters, nothing in your post deals with the Destroyer. Or did you forget that I purchased it for 8 perk points? It was a rather expensive purchase, I'd hate for it to go unnoticed.

The second issue is that my team will be doubly concealed. Both by Loki's magic and by the fact that there is a GIANT THUNDERSTORM covering the field.

How exactly is your team even going to engage with me in this situation? Let alone "blitz" me?

I mean, for example, for the Reaper you simultaneously wrote that he will "absorb lightning" "teleport to safety" and "blitz Loki (who is invisible, by the way)"

During your prep time, there's not much you can do, as you have no idea what you're actually facing,

What kind of a non-argument is this? Does having no knowledge prevent Thor from summoning a storm? I mean, he has done it before without any enemy in mind:

Are you referring to Loki not being able to amp my team with Norn stones or his magic during prep? Just because we don't have the basic knowledge perk? I mean, that's just silly. My prep is not contingent on who my opponent is. Nothing I wrote is tailored to your team specifically.

It's not in character for Loki to pull Frosti out of Jotunheim.

The question isn't "Is it in character for Loki to summon Frosti". It's "Is it in character for Loki to create a monster for a fight". And the answer is YES.

Now, if you really want to argue hardline what's in character and what isn't, we can do that, but let's then not pretend that everything you wrote is in character. I don't necessarily want to delve to deep into all of the out-of-character stuff you wrote, but rather, i would focus on debunking your comment.

First of all, can you prove it's out of character for Loki to use Frosti? I would say with 100% certainty that Frosti is a very new creation that Loki just shared 2 issues with. And in one of those two issues, Frosti was indeed used in combat. It's kinda wild to argue he for sure wouldn't use Frosti in this fight.

Furthermore, there is nothing stopping him from making a "new" Frosti. And, of course, it's not like Frosti "makes or breaks" my strategy, while we're there.

The dragons get knocked out bya Rex clone, as they don't have any resistance feats

My guy, Rex won't even have any clones. You have no prep time. You are dropping in the worst storm anyone from your team ever saw, and Rex literally has on-page, proven issues with tornadoes.

And, even if the dragons get knocked out by clones, it's not an issue. They are there to be easily beaten, they serve as a *distraction*

My team spawns in, and in that instant, Loki's head falls off (Uru isn't stopping, since Reaper can cut throught it anyway).

Oh no... Anyway:

Even if Thor somehow predicts and tries to interfere, I can simply use Hulk to stall him, or block Mjolnir, as they both are LS in this match up.

There are two Thors, Two Mjolnirs, and a Loki, and an army of monsters, and a goddamn Destroyer Armor in the mix here.

Once Loki's amps are off, I can set my plan in motion.

I like how weirdly you literally are just ignoring my offense, without offering anything to really survive it. While the prep time does include a storm, that's not all that will be happening.

The now depowered Thors will find themselves in a 3v2, where their strength is constantly weakend by other factors, that being Despo and Metamorpho (gases, brain damage, etc.)

Not at all depowered. Still stronger than your team. Odinson is still in the Destroyer Armor, so VASTLY amped. And Despo and Metamorpho are doing exactly NOTHING to the gods. Your own scan shows that Thor is immune to poisons (such as those for Chemotherapy) so "gasses" do literally nothing to Thor, and neither does Despo.

Even if Loki somehow recovers, he will have to deal with energy drain, Despo, Metamorpho and Reaper.

Loki actually has energy absorption resistance feats.

The combined draining abilities of your team don't come close to what Thor has done with Mjolnir in a bunch of different showings. The energy manipulation game of your team is vastly inferior. Let's go into that as well.

You brought up energy draining by Winter and Reaper several times throughout your post. And yeah, they definitely can do that, but there's a reason they are only single-pointers. Thor can do the same, but at a much MUCH higher level.

He fully drained Doom's Destroyer Armor within moments.

He fully drained Ultron within moments.

A super-powerful Thanos clone attacked Thor with an energy blast. Thor effortlessly absorbed all of it and returned it a hundredfold.

Absorbed the energy of a bomb that was so powerful the energy traveled a vast distance, through a galaxy, and reignited a star.

Drained the Presence fully and easily within a few pages. The Presence is basically Marvel's evil Captain Atom.

Absorbs the attack of Perrikus, the god of Infinite Energy who was once ready to kill Odin himself.

Completely drained Marduk, the Sumerian God of Sun.

Drains and depowers the Wrecker

In his coolest feat, he did this:

Gallery

Glory, as you can see, is literally comprised of a star and planets. In fact, Glory is an entity made out of 10,000 gods.

I mean, I hope I am being clear enough when I say this - Mjolnir is a much more powerful tool of energy draining than Eric's scythe.

And I don't just have one Mjolnir here, I have two. And since this is Worthy Thor, he can use both Mjolnirs as he sees fit.

Loki also has draining feats of his own.

There is no version of this story where you drain me.

For my opener, I focused mostly on my prep and the opening seconds of the fight. But, that's far from being everything that will happen here. While prep matters, you have to understand that my team will be attacking as well. And there's not much you can do to defend yourself. I mean, does Despotelis even have any protection against Magic? I mean Loki effortlessly turned Bor, a Skyfather in his own right, into a pile of snow.

When fighting Thor, he created clones of himself that were capable of overwhelming Thor physically (until Thor dispelled them with his hammer)

The offensive power of Loki is nothing to Scoff at. Don't get it twisted, he is far more than an enchanting support. He literally has spells that, of your team, only Hulk has a chance of surviving.

Just because Despotelis and Rex will be deemed useless, doesn't mean i don't still get to brawl this out. So, what happens when This superjuiced Thor faces off against the Hulk?

Well, that is a big question indeed. For decades those two were always showcased as near-equals as they've fought an insane number of times, and the marvel editors made sure that the score is evenly split between them.

But, for the entirety of their combined history, Thor always held back:

As BRB Says, Hulk never fought the Real Thor. And, while Thor in this debate isn't bloodlusted, he is equipped with the battle computer that would significantly improve his combat capabilities and with the Destroyer Armor which would serve as a massive amp and, more importantly, makes you rage, not dissimilarly to what Gamma did to him.

On top of all of that, Thor is amped by the Norn Stones. With all of those combined, Hulk is seriously underpowered for this debate.

The only way Hulk ever had a shot vs Thor, by the way, was Thor's complete lack of intelligent fighting. Thor can fly out into space, making Hulk's powerset near-useless, and just destroy your team with lightning and Godblasts.

Then, when it's time to fight the Hulk, the battle computer would absolutely make Thor untouchable by the likes of the green brute.

Both Thor and Jane will be amped to the limit of the tournament. Something that base Devil Hulk doesn't really reach.

And, to top it all off, Devil Hulk has a weakness. And, having an exploitable weakness against someone with a battle computer is a death sentence.

And having a weakness to sunlight is definitely abusable. What's to stop Thor or Loki from simply teleporting the Hulk into the Sun?